No1Mk3 Enfield Info

Wolfgang7

Wolfgang7

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Alberta, Canada
Hi all. So i have a No1Mk3 Lithgow Lee Enfield. I'm looking to find more info on it. First off is there anywhere i can check the serial number to find out when abouts it was made?? It's got 1941 stamped on it, but not sure if this is production date or perhaps a refurbishing date. I've tried to do as much reading online as i can but seems as if there's holes in my research. Just looking to check serial numbers as well as perhaps some other stamp marks to get more info. It's a nice gun in nice shape, interested in learning more!

As far as i can tell it seems as if the bolt and rifle don't match (serial #'s). Mmmmm it has an arrow ( ^ ) type stamp indicating military service? The Lithgow inspectors stamp? An asterisk type marking, more like a torx screwdriver head i guess. Even a few stamps in the wood stock....

I dunno, there's lots i'd have to get it out and examine again! Just anyone who could point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated!! i was just surprised i couldn't find out more about serial numbers etc!

Thanks in advance! :)
 
Friend, almost ALL Lithgows were military; it was the Australian Government factory.

Manufacturing date was marked on the Butt Socket on the RIGHT side. If your rifle has a Crown with GR under it and LITHGOW under that and 1941 under that and Sht LE Mark III* under that, then it is a Government rifle, made at Lthgow in 1941 to the pattern laid down for the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle Mark Three Star.

If it has been rebarreled at some time, the Barrel Date can be found on the Chamber at 10 o'clock position, just under the Rear Handguard.

Australian practice was to put the entire history of the rifle on the BUTT.

Post some photos and we will all take a crack at her. I have a Lithgow 1918 here with rebuild marks from 1933 and 1944: shoots to beat the band.

They are EXCELLENT rifles, among the cream of Lee-Enfields.

And you are a Lucky Guy.
 
.
As SMELLIE has noted, and given you the date information, you also have to consider what is happening at that time. In 1941, Australia was at War, and the priority of production of SMLE rifles was to get them into the hands of the Military. Rifles produced for Civilian use would have been extremely rare, if any.

The serial number on the back of the bolt should match the serial number of the rifle. If it does not, then the bolt has been replaced. One nice thing about the SMLE and LEE-Enfield system is that by changing the bolt heads, you can help "tighten" it up a bit IF the rifle has a different bolt or excess headspace.

SMELLIE hates "Check the Headspace" threads that stand alone, so by hiding this in the center of a Post, I might be able to slip it past him. Because your rifle has a different serial numbered bolt, it would be wise to have the "headspace" checked. This should be done with MILITARY guages, as there is a difference between Military and Commercial guages. These military rifles tend to have "generous" dimensions, so if you reload, try to keep your brass separate from other rifles of the same calibre, and neck size only, for maximum case life.

As in any inquiry, you should post pictures of EVERYTHING. Full views, close ups, and ALL markings. What may seem of no importance to someone who is familiar with a certain rifle such as the SMLE, can be of much more importance to a more advanced collector, and it would indicate things like rebuilds, areas of service, regiments or units that used it, or any special things about the rifle.
 
smellie said:
Friend, almost ALL Lithgows were military; it was the Australian Government factory.

Manufacturing date was marked on the Butt Socket on the RIGHT side. If your rifle has a Crown with GR under it and LITHGOW under that and 1941 under that and Sht LE Mark III* under that, then it is a Government rifle, made at Lthgow in 1941 to the pattern laid down for the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield rifle Mark Three Star.

If it has been rebarreled at some time, the Barrel Date can be found on the Chamber at 10 o'clock position, just under the Rear Handguard.

Australian practice was to put the entire history of the rifle on the BUTT.

Post some photos and we will all take a crack at her. I have a Lithgow 1918 here with rebuild marks from 1933 and 1944: shoots to beat the band.

They are EXCELLENT rifles, among the cream of Lee-Enfields.

And you are a Lucky Guy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! I will take some pics and be posting by the end of the day here. The butt socket reads :

MA
Lithgow
S.M.L.E.
III *
1941

And there's some stuff stamped to the butt as you said. I'll wait and post pics you guys can have a look!
 
buffdog said:
.
As SMELLIE has noted, and given you the date information, you also have to consider what is happening at that time. In 1941, Australia was at War, and the priority of production of SMLE rifles was to get them into the hands of the Military. Rifles produced for Civilian use would have been extremely rare, if any.

The serial number on the back of the bolt should match the serial number of the rifle. If it does not, then the bolt has been replaced. One nice thing about the SMLE and LEE-Enfield system is that by changing the bolt heads, you can help "tighten" it up a bit IF the rifle has a different bolt or excess headspace.

SMELLIE hates "Check the Headspace" threads that stand alone, so by hiding this in the center of a Post, I might be able to slip it past him. Because your rifle has a different serial numbered bolt, it would be wise to have the "headspace" checked. This should be done with MILITARY guages, as there is a difference between Military and Commercial guages. These military rifles tend to have "generous" dimensions, so if you reload, try to keep your brass separate from other rifles of the same calibre, and neck size only, for maximum case life.

As in any inquiry, you should post pictures of EVERYTHING. Full views, close ups, and ALL markings. What may seem of no importance to someone who is familiar with a certain rifle such as the SMLE, can be of much more importance to a more advanced collector, and it would indicate things like rebuilds, areas of service, regiments or units that used it, or any special things about the rifle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. As mentioned above i'm gonna be posting some pics. i may have made a mistake, it appears that the bolt is the matching one i believe. There are two numbers stamped on both the bolt and receiver. Back of the bolt handle reads C50***, which has a matching # stamped on kind of the right side by the chamber. Under the bolt handle reads H4*** which has a matching # right below where the bolt handle closes. Anyway i'll post some pics !
 
You have a matching bolt, the C50### is the serial number, H4### is the batch/assembley number this number indicates the bolt is the original one.
C50### whilst stamped 1941 would have been assembled in 1942.
 
"...the Australian Government..." They didn't bother changing to the No. 4 Rifle just before W.W. II. They said the rifles they had worked just fine thanks. Made 'em until they switched to FN's in the mid50's.
"...You have a matching bolt..." That gives absolutely no guarantee that the bolt head is original. You have no idea if somebody changed it for who knows why at some time in the last 72 years.
"...among the cream of Lee-Enfields..." The No. 1 Rifles, but even war time made rifles are good.
 
Hey it worked! What do you guys think?? Let me know if a pic of anything else is required......

The only thing here that i found a bit off was the "84" . It the only marking that seems to me out of place..... but i have no idea..

Anyway thanks all, looking forward to learning about this rifle!! :)

Also on a sidenote i also have a bayonette for this rifle, but i know not matching as i bought at a gun show long after i got the rifle!! Maybe i'll post pics with the bayo too
 
I see the s/n is C5005, you gave it as being a 5 digit number "C50***" this brings the assembley date right back to late 1941/early 1942 but i would still pick 1942 as the year your rifle was originaly assembled, i dont have the complete picture as i have not observed enough high numbered B prefixed & low C prefixed Lithgows to be 100% sure when C prefixed rifles were started, i have seen a high B prefix that was dated 1941 on all parts & the butt, with a barrel date of 12 '41 but not a low C prefixed rifle with a '41 dated barrel (yet)
 
Different colors of paint told you the condition of the bore. Some of the guns came from military schools.
 
5THBATT said:
I see the s/n is C5005, you gave it as being a 5 digit number "C50***" this brings the assembley date right back to late 1941/early 1942 but i would still pick 1942 as the year your rifle was originaly assembled, i dont have the complete picture as i have not observed enough high numbered B prefixed & low C prefixed Lithgows to be 100% sure when C prefixed rifles were started, i have seen a high B prefix that was dated 1941 on all parts & the butt, with a barrel date of 12 '41 but not a low C prefixed rifle with a '41 dated barrel (yet)
Click to expand...

The serial # is C50054 , just the last digit is hard to see as theres gunk built up over it!
 
The little metal plate is a rack number.
Paint on cadet rifles
Green; fully serviceable
Yellow; not first line, but still safe to shoot
Red; don't get a live round anywhere it!
OA Orange Arsenal, a feeder factory
BA Bathurst arsenal, another feeder factory
 
great thanks guys! So what mainly determines the condition for paint? is it a safety thing or a bore condition? Or just overall condition?

As we'll does anyone know what the markings/letters on the side of the butt stock are?
 
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