No1Mk3 Enfield Info
- Thread starter Wolfgang7
- Start date
Earliest Number 4 I have seen is one that turned up at the Brandon Gun Show several years ago. It was properly marked as No4 Mark 1 and was dated 1931. Thing was all-matching, too! I very nearly had a COW, right on the spot!
Turned out it had JUST been sold by a friend whose table I had not yet got to..... for $325.
I STILL weep a bit about that one.
Par'm me: I feel a good cry coming on......
Turned out it had JUST been sold by a friend whose table I had not yet got to..... for $325.
I STILL weep a bit about that one.
Par'm me: I feel a good cry coming on......
My 1907 BSA MkIII
nice!
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
My 1907 BSA MkIII
hey I meant to ask, is that a peep sight that folds down on the left side?
Rear Volley Sight.
Front Volley Sight is the PLATE on the left side of the Stock, just forward of the proper Rear Sight.
You set the FRONT sight for the range you needed (up to 2800 yards) and then raised the rear APERTURE and you were dead-on. Line up a Company and let drift and you had the same thing as a machine-gun.
Volley sights were installd on the SMLE Mark III 1907 - 1915/16. It was their removal as much as anything else which made the III*. Mark III* also had the Cut-off removed.
Front Volley Sight is the PLATE on the left side of the Stock, just forward of the proper Rear Sight.
You set the FRONT sight for the range you needed (up to 2800 yards) and then raised the rear APERTURE and you were dead-on. Line up a Company and let drift and you had the same thing as a machine-gun.
Volley sights were installd on the SMLE Mark III 1907 - 1915/16. It was their removal as much as anything else which made the III*. Mark III* also had the Cut-off removed.
There are some beautiful rifles on here. I don't think mine is in the same league. But it has a history, and it's been in my family for many many years. I'm currently sprucing it up to give back to a family member as a gift.
This is what I got (stock and fore stock are removed obviously). I have to say I don't think the stocks were original, as there was no information on the stock.
This is what I got (stock and fore stock are removed obviously). I have to say I don't think the stocks were original, as there was no information on the stock.
So on my enfield I just have the rear sight that is marked to 2000yds or whatever, is that accomplishing the same thing?
The regular sights, out to 2000 yards, are designed for individual application of fire from the shoulder of the rifleman. They are good for deliberate aimed shooting.
The Volley Sights are designed differently. They are for use by a GROUP of troopies, out to ranges half a mile PAST what the regular sights are used for.
To elevate the rifle muzzle high enough to us the Volley Sights ar their extreme range, the rifle must be held with the butt DOWN and well OFF the shoulder. Only that way can you get the elevation necessary for putting the bullet THAT far.
The DIAL POINTER of the forward Volley Sight has a tiny BUTTON sticking out of its left side on the ARM end of the pointer. The little POINT is used to set the sight; the actual Sight Element is on the longer end of the Arm. You place this tiny Button ON what you are attempting to hit, then look THROUGH the Aperture on the Arm which swings up at the rear of the Body. When actually in use, the eye will be looking through the Aperture, which is 2 inches ABOVE the axis of the Bore..... but the Front Volley Sight element in use can be as much as an inch UNDER the Forestock. You cannot POSSIBLY aim a rifle from the shoulder in this manner.
The REASON for the things was Parliament's refusal to fund enough MACHINE-GUNS for the Army. In this, they had the support of Lord Kitchener, the Minister for War. "The Machine Gun is a vastly over-rated weapon; two per Battalion is more than sufficient."
TWO per Battalion had worked fine at Omdurman, but the Western Front was not like Omdurman..... and others could see it coming.
And so the Volley Sights were developed in order that 40 MEN could substitute for a Machine Gun when necessary. It was an AREA FIRE sight only and would have been useless for individual marksmanship.
And the men were trained on the "Mad Minute". It took 15 aimed rounds per minute, 100% hits on a 200-yard target, just to get your BASIC QUALIFICATION as a Rifleman. They were GOOD, make no mistake about that. I have had the rare privilege of shooting with a Great War veteran.... and he was as good at 83 as I was at 33! And then came Snoxall, to prove to untrained men that it could be done with ANY rifle in the Army.
When World War One broke out, the British Army had their TWO Machine-Guns per Battalion. Fritz had EIGHT and had three factories turning the things out as fast as possible. THEN came the Lewis. By the end of the Great War the Volley Sight was history.... but the British Army had a minimum of 64 MGs per Battalion and was working toward a figure of 128, a figure which was attained in many cases.
Industry and Mechanisation had begun to make war more costly and less expensive at the same time. It all depended on which you valued: money or men's blood.
The Volley Sights are designed differently. They are for use by a GROUP of troopies, out to ranges half a mile PAST what the regular sights are used for.
To elevate the rifle muzzle high enough to us the Volley Sights ar their extreme range, the rifle must be held with the butt DOWN and well OFF the shoulder. Only that way can you get the elevation necessary for putting the bullet THAT far.
The DIAL POINTER of the forward Volley Sight has a tiny BUTTON sticking out of its left side on the ARM end of the pointer. The little POINT is used to set the sight; the actual Sight Element is on the longer end of the Arm. You place this tiny Button ON what you are attempting to hit, then look THROUGH the Aperture on the Arm which swings up at the rear of the Body. When actually in use, the eye will be looking through the Aperture, which is 2 inches ABOVE the axis of the Bore..... but the Front Volley Sight element in use can be as much as an inch UNDER the Forestock. You cannot POSSIBLY aim a rifle from the shoulder in this manner.
The REASON for the things was Parliament's refusal to fund enough MACHINE-GUNS for the Army. In this, they had the support of Lord Kitchener, the Minister for War. "The Machine Gun is a vastly over-rated weapon; two per Battalion is more than sufficient."
TWO per Battalion had worked fine at Omdurman, but the Western Front was not like Omdurman..... and others could see it coming.
And so the Volley Sights were developed in order that 40 MEN could substitute for a Machine Gun when necessary. It was an AREA FIRE sight only and would have been useless for individual marksmanship.
And the men were trained on the "Mad Minute". It took 15 aimed rounds per minute, 100% hits on a 200-yard target, just to get your BASIC QUALIFICATION as a Rifleman. They were GOOD, make no mistake about that. I have had the rare privilege of shooting with a Great War veteran.... and he was as good at 83 as I was at 33! And then came Snoxall, to prove to untrained men that it could be done with ANY rifle in the Army.
When World War One broke out, the British Army had their TWO Machine-Guns per Battalion. Fritz had EIGHT and had three factories turning the things out as fast as possible. THEN came the Lewis. By the end of the Great War the Volley Sight was history.... but the British Army had a minimum of 64 MGs per Battalion and was working toward a figure of 128, a figure which was attained in many cases.
Industry and Mechanisation had begun to make war more costly and less expensive at the same time. It all depended on which you valued: money or men's blood.
The Volley Sights were done way with beginning in late 1915 because they were fragile and not really very practical.
They were a Good Thing when the Army could not get enough Machine Guns.
Once Parliament's money-bags got opened up, enough Machine Guns finally were made end purchased, rendering the raison d'etre of the Volley Sight nonexistent.
Why stand 40 men out in the open to blaze away at a target..... when the job can be done easier by a dug-in machine gun with only its water-cooled muzzle peeking out between the sandbags?
They were a Good Thing when the Army could not get enough Machine Guns.
Once Parliament's money-bags got opened up, enough Machine Guns finally were made end purchased, rendering the raison d'etre of the Volley Sight nonexistent.
Why stand 40 men out in the open to blaze away at a target..... when the job can be done easier by a dug-in machine gun with only its water-cooled muzzle peeking out between the sandbags?
Ah smellie nice work! You are a wealth of great info ! i had always thought that my "normal" sights were the volley sights until now. And makes sense what you say that it couldn't possibly line up on the shoulder in certain circumstances....
On a side note, IS there a peep sight option for my particular Enfield????
As well i can't imagine having the privilege to shoot with a Great War veteran, you sir ......are a Lucky Guy .. and thanks again for taking the time to post on my thread
On a side note, IS there a peep sight option for my particular Enfield????
As well i can't imagine having the privilege to shoot with a Great War veteran, you sir ......are a Lucky Guy .. and thanks again for taking the time to post on my thread
Parker-Hale, A.G. Parker, A.J. Parker, BSA made really decent aperture sights for the SMLE rifle, as did Alex Martin of Glasgow. My shooting buddy for 25 years was one of Alex Martin's nephews (who was a Leupold fan!). Canada Tool and Sutherland in New Glasgow, NS used to make excellent sights although they mainly saw use on the Ross. With the right adapter, they would also fit and work fine on the SMLE.
Hang around gun shows; some of these sights do pop up. The PH5 and the TZ both were available for the Number 1 Rifle. With different mounts, they worked on the Number 4 as well.
Some of these sights have adjustable apertures and QUARTER minute adjustments...... and you can actually USE them. When you get an old SMLE tuned to that point, you are making sub-MOA groups with the irons out to 300 and past.
Good barrel, good bedding, good ammo and a good hold and YOU can do it.
Hang around gun shows; some of these sights do pop up. The PH5 and the TZ both were available for the Number 1 Rifle. With different mounts, they worked on the Number 4 as well.
Some of these sights have adjustable apertures and QUARTER minute adjustments...... and you can actually USE them. When you get an old SMLE tuned to that point, you are making sub-MOA groups with the irons out to 300 and past.
Good barrel, good bedding, good ammo and a good hold and YOU can do it.
- Location
- Tucson, Arizona
I have a No1 Mk5 not A NO5 MK1 although I do have two of the carbines, one with the nosecap and one without
Not all Lithgows were made for the military. I have one in 22 Hornet and it was made that way at the factory, NOT an aftermarket conversion
Not all Lithgows were made for the military. I have one in 22 Hornet and it was made that way at the factory, NOT an aftermarket conversion
ok thanks again smellie! I will go check!
- Location
- On a resonably direct route in NS
Since he gave the thread number in the database, you can copy it and look in the address bar of the thread you're browsing, then just highlight the current number (and anything following) and paste in the quoted number. It will load up that thread.
If you read on a phone or something, it's probably too much trouble.
This links directly to the post mentioned. Direct links to posts can be copied from the post number that is assigned at the top of each reply.
thanks for this!
