No4 Mk1 Lee Enfield - Need help identifying and possibly fixing

bluemike807

bluemike807

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Hi everyone. I bought my first centrefire today; the purchase being a reflection of my student budget - a No4. Mk1 Sporterized Lee Enfield. Still, Im happy with it, mostly because Im proud to own a piece of Commonwealth history as well as such a mainstay of Canadian hunting culture.
I would like some help though in maybe figuring out where it was manufactured. Something tells me - not Longbranch - but I could be wrong. The 'wrist plate' has apparently been ground down and re-stamped, so it wasn't too helpful, and there's not much else to go on.

Here are some photos of any stamps I could find:

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As far as I can tell, all of the parts are matching. I was surprised though that the cocking knob on the bolt is circular - I thought everything from the Long Lee forward was more squared. I haven't fired it yet so I cant speak to headspace/how it fires, etc.

One thing (and this is where I need help). Loading it seems to be a problem. To test out the cycling of the action I put a single round into the magazine, and tried to close the bolt. The bullet-end was pushed upward and to the left, wedging solidly. I didn't try to force it, but it was clear that it wasn't going anywhere - so much so it squashed the exposed lead of the bullet.

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There's a little hole drilled into the external side of the receiver, right before the chamber - you can see it in the 2nd and 3rd photos, and its catching right around there on the inside; more on the circular shelf immediately surrounding the chamber. Im not sure if its a problem with the magazine or the receiver (ie. if some dunderhead drilled a hole in it, and I, the bigger dunderhead, bought a bum rifle).

How can I tell if I have a decent magazine? I've tried loading multiple rounds into it and the topmost one always seems to just... pop out.

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Anyway, would really appreciate any help you folks could offer! If I bought a dud, don't break it to me gentle, because I sure wont be breaking anything gently to the store where I bought it if thats the case.

Thanks!
 
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The hole is normal.

The problem likely is with the mag. If the round "pops" out it'd be conceivable that it would misalign itself before the bolt would start pushing on it. Do you have access to another mag? Yours probably just needs minor tweaking to the tabs but that can be a frustrating process of trials and errors.

As for the markings, there are none on the left side of the receiver? Although I suspect from the butt socket, there seems to be an "M", which could be for R.O.F. Maltby in England.

Lou
 
Thanks for the response. With regard to the mag, I'm going to call up the store I bought it from and ask if they'd trade me a working one; apparently they have bins of Enfield bits, hopefully, mags included.

There are a couple of M's I've noticed. There are also two (that I've seen) BNP's.
 
Not trying to be a safety nazi, get yourself a dummy (snap cap) to test the action. I would not load the firearm with live ammo in the comfort of my house, regardless of the direction the muzzle is in.
Flame suit on.
 
dudu said:
Not trying to be a safety nazi, get yourself a dummy (snap cap) to test the action. I would not load the firearm with live ammo in the comfort of my house, regardless of the direction the muzzle is in.
Flame suit on.
Click to expand...

Not bad advice. I also never load live ammo in the house, and have a pair of snap caps just for testing.


As for the mag, probably not a big adjustment. Look at the mag from the top down, and see if the sides are parallel or bowed outwards. If so, give them a gentle squeeze until they are back in alignment. Very common issue the mags. Also, the front tangs on the mag lip(s) could have been spread out by wear, but don't mess with them until you check option A.
 
I had a problem with one of my mags also, not exactly the same issue but still had feeding problems. I opened up the mag and the spring had been riveted so it didn't have the proper force pushing up on the rounds. So likely your mag is the issue.
 
Panman said:
Not bad advice. I also never load live ammo in the house, and have a pair of snap caps just for testing.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, and if they had any in stock, I would too. I was extremely careful about cycling the action with the live round, and had the muzzle in as safe a direction as possible (a two-foot thick cinder block wall), but yes, its not something Im going to repeat, unless its at the range. I just wanted to make sure the rifle could at least chamber a round correctly.

I fiddled with the magazine, and found that its only really doing that little trick I mentioned on the last round. I can probably live with that, and will have a fiddle with the feed lips in the meantime. Thanks for the advice. Does anyone have any other ideas as to the origins of the rifle?
 
Your feed issue is the mag, i can see by the pic the front ear is bent, just a matter of tweeking it till it works right. and if you dont reload your self get some you know to make you at least 3 dummy rounds, or find a .303 nut to help you tweek the mag
 
John Sukey said:
Looking at the muzzle, it appears that someone has cut the ears off the front sight guard, so that needs replacing
Click to expand...

The front sight guard (or ears) is removable. Just go to Numrich and order a new one. BNP ( British Nitro Proof) and the 2.222 are marks that are stamped when a rifle is sold from military service to a civilian company. "1" on the bolt head means you have a number 1 bolt head (kind of obvious). As for the mag, although Enfields were issued with detachable mags, they were still meant to be loaded with stripper clips. You will have an easier and more reliable time loading and feeding if you leave the mag in and just feed from the top. The hole in the chamber is a gas relief hole i the event of split casing and the like. If you post a pic of the entire Enfield then we can let you know if it is "desporterizable"

Looks like a No.4 Mk.1 (can't tell if it is * or not)
 
I'll try to post a picture of the whole thing later today. As far as I can tell it shouldn't be a big deal to 'desporterize'.

Im hoping to get one of these

Im a bit confused though as it says 'metal and wood' stock - but doesnt indicate if it includes the barrel bands and endcaps. Im guessing not?

I'd appreciate anyones comments on the process of desporterizing - any tips or advice going into it. Im not 100% sure if Im going to do it; Im going to try stripping the existing wood and applying Boiled Linseed Oil; its pretty beaten up though, but it certainly is lighter than a full No4Mk1, by a good few pounds. Time will tell; I'll try to post those pics soon.
 
May i suggest that you go to www.skennerton.com and order S.A.I.S (Small Arms Identification Series) booklet on the No4. This is relatively inexpensive, around $10 plus post and it contains an illustrated parts breakdown along with a potted history and illustrations of the accessories.

I did note that bubba threw away the rear handguard retaining ring. When ordering parts, if you miss one lousy screw, you still are going to get hit with additional shipping and handling for that one item.

Going by the illustration, it appears that the metal forend and handguard bits are present. The handguard cap is rivited in place.
Kust a quick note, the pins holding the endcap on the forend have flats on the ends. they must be properly positioned or the barrel band won't fit.
 
"...top most one always seems to just..." Like mosquito99 says, the front mag lip is bent down. Fine needle nosed pliers are the tool to use to gently bend it back up until the cartridge stays put.
"...BNP..." Birmingham Nitro Proof. The rifle was sold out of England. Proofing is a Brit requirement. The numbers on the end of the barrel are what it proofed at.
Have the headspace checked before you shoot it.
"...'metal and wood' stock..." Metal on the handguards only. Everything else is extra. Restoring it to military configuration can get expensive. For example, Marstar, when they have 'em, wants $7 each for the Middle band. $4.55US with no sling swivel screw from Gunparts. Adds up fast.
 
Here are a couple of full-length photos for more detail. I'll leave the proper observations to the experts, but I'd guess it has a shorn version of the original forestock.


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The rear stock near the handgrip is more rounded than I would have expected, having seen on most enfields that the shape of the stock is more angular where the handgrip becomes the butt. There's also an obvious repair to the butt on the top-rear, and the buttplate is a silver metal, as opposed to brass.

Also the flip-up sight isnt quite what I expected. Its graduated with a spring-loaded fastener, as opposed to the finger-wheel I've seen on others. Is that usual or is it 'aftermarket'? I'd probably like to switch it for the wheeled version for better precision.

Could anyone spell out what they see needs to be done to re-authenticate it? So far Im figuring its the stock set I linked earlier, the bands and possibly the sight 'ears'. Thanks!
 
Yup, you've got a decent candidate. The rear sight is one "legit" type. The butt was sanded. You'd need:
- butt stock, forend, rear handguard, front handguard
- Rear sling swivel and screws
- Barrel ring (fits on the barrel, behind the rear handguard)
- Middle band, with screw and sling swivel
- Front band, with screw
- Front sight guard with screw

I think that's it...

Lou
 
cam1936 said:
I can't see in the pic but has the stamping on the left side of the reciver been ground off?
Click to expand...

Well, if there was something there before, it ain't there now. It looks like its been ground as there are two small stamps (visible in some of my earlier photos) that are worn at their right edges.

You weren't kidding when you said that de-sporterizing one of these things was expensive; I just added it up:

Front Swing Swivel - $2.95
Front Swing Swivel Screw - $3.10
Front Sight Guard - $4.80
Front Sight Guard Screw - $1.90
Front Stock Band - $4.55
Stacking Swivel Screw - $3.10
Stacking Swivel - $4.80
Rear Swivel - $10.45
Barrel / Rear Stock Band - $4.05
New Furniture - $62.40

Shipping - didn't go so far as to work it out as many of the parts above are sold out presently, but they tack on an extra $25.00 for international.
Im going to guess shipping will be in the $40 range.
so Shipping - $55.00

Thats U$ 167.10

So thats approx. $173.25 by today's exchange rate.

I suppose that isn't too bad; all told it would cost about as much as buying an unaltered No4 Mk1, and hopefully some of the hardware would be newer.

I guess I'll work up to it as an eventual project.
Does de-sporterizing it grant any additional accuracy? Whats the difference in weight, usually?
 
Watch the EE. Parts turn up. Take your time, pick up a bit here, a bit there. Nothing you need is particularly difficult to obtain.
 
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