Non restricted affordable options ???

While I realize you're asking for nr there is no nr availiable at the quality level of an ar anywhere near the same price. Ar's are such a good value I suggest you pick one up. Cheapest these days are the smith and wesson or I believe there are bushmasters coming in.
 
Ebola said:
There are 2 porche's that can fit a car seat nicely. The Porche Cayenne and the 4 door Panamara.

As for the op's question, a new ruger mini 14 would fit the bill nicely. It is probably the cheapest .223 rifle that is respectable. You can also mod the hell out of it to.
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Without breaking the bank
 
VZ58 in 225/556 are a little bit over 1000 on the EE. There are the SU16 and pre 580 mini14 but they are not worth it imo. The SU16 is cheap plastic and you can bend the barrel with your hand and the pre 581 is the reason why minis have a poor reputation. 580+ series mini14s are good but between 1000 (used) and 1500 (new).
 
Dake21 said:
The SU16 is cheap plastic and you can bend the barrel with your hand
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Really? I know it's a thin profile, but that's faulked. Maybe it's flexing from the receiver/trunnion/however it's attached... Anyways, watch the Nutnfancy video on the SU-16. He sings its praises as though it's a steal. I can't get over some of the pictures I've seen of users cracking the back of their receivers apart from firing.
 
Wait and save your money hopefully in a year or two we will see the CZ805 (.223) and/or CZ 806 (.308).
If anything will have me leave my 8mm mauser at home for hunting it will be hunting with a CZ 806 oh I can't wait.

I do own a few pistols but I agree I'd rather have a nonrestricted rifle than a restricted and have not jumped into AR's for that reason.
 
Thanks for the input guys the 2 mentioning the cz 805 and the keltek brought up good points ....those are very reasonable options but keep the input coming I can't be the only guy stuck between a rock and a hard place.
 
The SU 16, t97, VZ in .223 and mini 14 are really the only guns that meet ur criteria at this point.

For 1200-2000 range ur options open up. U could get a new or used MR1, a used XCR, a used Tavor, a new or used SL8. All of which are fairly decent for the money in comparison to what else is available on the Canadian market.
 
Jube said:
Really? I know it's a thin profile, but that's faulked. Maybe it's flexing from the receiver/trunnion/however it's attached... Anyways, watch the Nutnfancy video on the SU-16. He sings its praises as though it's a steal. I can't get over some of the pictures I've seen of users cracking the back of their receivers apart from firing.
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Nutnfancy seems to be very good friends with the Kel-tec guy so his reviews are always very positive. I would not rely solely on his review.
I've owned the Sub-2000, RFB, and KSG and all worked fine, the 2000 was very cheap feeling but it did what it was supposed to do when you pulled the trigger, was surprisingly accurate, and once it was broken in it was very reliable. My experience with the RFB and KSG were both very positive. Both were gen 2 models and functioned perfectly from day one.
I've shot two SU-16's and both functioned perfectly but the standard model had horrible accuracy, it looked like we were using a shotgun after a couple boxes of ammo. We tried a few different types of ammo as well but nothing tightened up the groups. The other one was the FX or tactical model or whatever it is that looks like an AR and it was a much better rifle than the standard model, it felt much more solid and the accuracy was pretty good.

Back to the original question,
For $1000 there really isn't anything of quality.
-The SU-16 series are in your budget but you will end up selling it for a loss in order to upgrade once you realize how much more rifle you get for $500 more. If you do go this route I would only consider the tactical model as it was definitely a better built rifle than the standard folding model. The biggest pain in the arse with these is stripping for cleaning, they are not very user friendly in that regard.
-The T-97 is a disposable rifle with no warranty or parts support. They suffer from the typical QC issues everything that comes from China has, if you get a good one you will be happy but you're just as likely to get one built out of spec and you'll be frustrated till the day you sell it.
-The Mini-14 isn't really a "black" rifle and in order to dress it up to be more tacticool you'll end up spending as much as a used Tavor or XCR-L would have cost you.
-The XCR-L had some growing pains in the earlier models and has never been know for it's accuracy but at least the newer ones seem to have sorted out the issues and are pretty reliable with excellent support from Wolverine Supplies. With used ones on the EE for under $2000 these days they are an excellent choice as long as you don't plan to sit on a firing line trying to make small groups on paper.
-The Tavor is also an excellent rifle if you are ok with a bullpup, accuracy is not it's strong point but for CQB, 3-gun, etc it's hard to beat once you get used to the ergo's and controls. These can also be found for under $2000 these days making them one of the best buys out there now.
-The HK SL8- series is also a great rifle, I've owned three of them and all were set up differently, two of them were able to shoot 1 moa with quality factory ammo or handloads, I sold the third one before I had a chance to do any load testing but I'm sure it would be no different than the others, the rifle is heavy but is very reliable and probably the most accurate factory offering available.
-A used AR-180B-2 would be a good rifle if you can find one for under $1600 in original condition (I hate it when people try to turn them into an AR). They are reliable and provide decent accuracy but parts are hard to come by.

The CZ and VZ series are decent rifles but they are for the most part a fancy SKS and I'm a firm believer that if you want something to be reliable you don't take a rifle designed to run 7.62x39 and convert it to 223 or the other way around. They are designed to feed a certain shape of ammo from a certain type of magazine and when you mess with that stuff without actually re-engineering the rifle you will usually end up with something that doesn't function as well as the original.

The other options worth considering are going to run you $2500+ even on the used market so unless you're going to up the budget I'll leave it at that.

I would suggest skipping all the pistol caliber carbines unless you never plan to shoot past 200 yards and you really just want something that looks cool and makes more noise than a 22. I've owned the HK USC, a couple Kriss Vector's and the Sub-2000 and all of them get boring really fast.

I would buy an American made AR to start with as long as you have good access to a certified range and you're ok with using it at the range only. It will put one of the best rifles in your hands within your budget and allow you to shoot while you save up some more money. When you're ready you can sell it and move to something non restricted, this will also give you more time to research and hopefully get a chance to shoot some other rifles to get a feeling for what you really want. Even though the Tavor/X95 is an excellent rifle the bullpup design isn't for everyone so dropping $2000 just to try one out may not be the best plan. I had a chance to shoot four of them before I bought one for myself, I never got the big smile feeling when shooting the four that belonged to someone else so figured that since everyone was still raving about it I would try one for myself. After three months I sold it, nice rifle, built well, reliable, accurate enough for play time but just doesn't do it for me.

Remember to budget for ammo and some sort of sights so basically put $1000 aside just for that. Semi auto 223 rifles are very hungry and can suck back a lot of ammo in an afternoon, you can easily drop $200+ an afternoon just having fun ringing gongs. Even cheap 223 is around $0.50 per shot so keep this in mind if you don't have a decent amount of disposable income.

Good luck.
 
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Well it's not 1000$ budget that's set in stone it could come up if needed. If 500$ more is guna get me a way better gun then so be it I'm young no debt and double income I just think the 2700-3500 (+goodies) range is rediculious for something that's just guna be a fun every now and then toy.

As far as range membership I do have one and shoot indoors (sp01)in winter but I do a lot of shooting out at the farm and what ever I buy I want to be able to shoot it out there to ........ not worth the risk shooting a restricted gun at the farm, I'm not a strong man and don't need that type of temptation in my life lol


^^ yet another example of how Canadian gun laws only apply to law abiding citizens...(humbug!)
 
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konarocks* said:
Well it's not 1000$ budget that's set in stone it could come up if needed. If 500$ more is guna get me a way better gun then so be it I'm young no debt and double income I just think the 2700-3500 (+goodies) range is rediculious for something that's just guna be a fun every now and then toy.
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$500 or $800 more gets you into some much better choices that don't force you to compromise. My choice here would be to watch the EE for a good used Tavor.
 
I had a XCR-M for the last 5 years and i would not sell it, my trader rating would go down, i am keeping it, it is a poor rifle... JHP.
 
konarocks* said:
Well it's not 1000$ budget that's set in stone it could come up if needed. If 500$ more is guna get me a way better gun then so be it I'm young no debt and double income I just think the 2700-3500 (+goodies) range is rediculious for something that's just guna be a fun every now and then toy.
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Well, if you run the budget up to $2500 or less you open up a lot of doors.
My first suggestion would be to buy a used restricted Bushmaster ACR for $2000-$2300 then save up $500 and have it converted to non restricted when you can afford it.
I've owned two of them and still have my FDE model, I bought a stainless match grade 223 barrel for it and also built my own non restricted 300BLK conversion. I've owned almost all the non restricted black rifles available to us and the ACR is by far my favorite. It's unfortunate that the factory support has been pretty weak so far but it appears to be picking up a little.

In the $2500+ price range you can get quite a few different rifles and all are pretty good, once again getting out to the range and talking to guys and hopefully shooting their guns will help you decide which rifle fits you best. None of us can really tell you what you will like the most, only what we like.

If you're not very serious about shooting and just want something for "fun every now and then" I would go with either a used XCR or Tavor.

Where do you live? Central AB where? If you're near Edmonton PM me and if we can line up schedules you can come out to my place and try my ACR, Modern Hunter, and AR180B-2. I may also be able to get a couple other guys out and we can add HK SL8 and Modern Varmint to the list.
 
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