Non-restricted firearms registration for Quebec customer

[johnone]

JANEAU:
"Again a big story for nothing. Just call the RCMP Canadian Firearms Center and ask. If you still doupt, call the Sûreté du Québec."
They will give you the policy as of this date.... IF you require clarification one past events ask what the policy was as of that particular date....

"Other do it for you. Just ask when you buy- so it is clear. "
No longer so,with the new system that was recently introduced we cannot register long guns at all, not Quebec, not anywhere.

John

 

[johnone]

BOBTODRICK;
"If it is illegal for a gun seller to keep a transaction record of a NR gun sale...how is one to deal with a warranty issue."
Thank you for bringing up an interesting and valid question.... Perhaps some of the experts here could offer an opinion ??
Everybody knows about Marstar's warranty policy, how will will honor it to a sales slip ?

"Most warranties require proof of purchase to obtain the warranty. "
Exactly my friend....

I tink that there is a great deal of confusion between keep of corporate records and the keeping of records for the authorities
John

 

[johnone]

Fairly sure there will be a crap load of 'fuss' if it gets locked or censored

When the hell have we ever locked a thread, contrary to what some here seem to believe, we think everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how ill informed it might be.
John

 

[Wired leader]

Wow...

This thread is a new low for CGN. I do not seem to have any difficulty comprehending the issue or the responses. I felt that the answer was given no less than 3 times, yet people are still bleating on.

Really, If you would be kind enough to point out the 3 posts which answered the OP's question.
Only the post which is a copy of the current law comes close , but does not clarify their position

GUNOHOLIC;
"If Marstar is being bashed for being overly eager to collaborate with Big Brother there are many others who did the very same."

I just wish that people would learn ALL the facts before jumping in with their expert opinions....
John

THANK YOU I could not have said it better, I am off to our time machine and will travel back a few months and erase all files....
Regards
John

I would respectfully suggest you read a typical license issued in this province, simply put, you are wrong
John

Once again we are dealing with incomplete information....There have been several changes in regulations, policies , etc, etc since the LGR went down.... so please do not generalize in your statements
John

That was last winter, the rules changed several times since then, inform yourself before making statements, PLEASE
John

NOT WORTHY OF A REPLY
John

Read up on the matter, learn how many changes were made from the time the LGR went down until recently....
John

Marstar's policy is VERY simple to understand, we follow the law../..Whatever that may be at any given time
John

OK PLEASE read this, I am typing it s l o w l y I am certain that some people out there will understand, MASTAR's policy is to obey the law at any given time, no more, no loess, how can I make any easier to understand ??
We do NOT make the laws,
we do NOT make the policies,
We do NOT write up the directives
In an efort to stay in business we have NO choice
John

NO censorship, I have not loacked the thread, you can continue to rant and rave to your heart's desire.... John

For quite some time we are NOT obliged to register LGs for Quebec customers.... NOR are there even provisions with the new online system with the CFC.... John

Clearly Marstar's fault, we manipulated the courts decision.... John

damn it, I am going to REPEAT again, since the LGR went down we have been flooded with new policies, decisions, regulations etc, etc.... In ALL cases we have followed the instructions as they were issued, if you know of an alternative please be kind enough to let me know John

Let me see if I understand this one, we are "bad guys" because we followed the directives from the CFC/CFO ??
John

IT SEEMS all but impossible to make myself understood, when the LGR went down we followed the instructions of the day, as matter progressed we received more instructions, we followed them them, while the injunction was in place we followed the instructions of the day, until recently we continued to follow all directives....
If following the required measures as laid out by the CFC/CFO makes us wrong, then so be it....
I don't know how many of you out there are in the trade, not many I would guess, if you have all the solutions, then offer them, you have all the answers ?? Then why aren't you in the business, hell I will sell you this company so you can demonstrate your knowledge to the world.
John

How can we explain it to your satisfaction ???? What can we say that will satisfy you ?? Would you kindly inform me as to the alternative ?? If we are not to follow the law what are we to do ??
John

PLEASE take a moment to read;
Changes to business requirements for non-restricted firearms registration

- Revision -
Special Bulletin for Businesses No. 79

May 25, 2012
Snapshot

Implementation of Bill C-19, the Ending the Long-Gun Registry Act.
Implications

The federal government amended the Criminal Code and the Firearms Act to eliminate the requirement to register non-restricted firearms as of April 5, 2012.

However, until further notice, due to a Quebec Superior Court order, Quebec residents are still required to register non-restricted firearms with the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program (CFP). Quebec businesses must also continue to register non-restricted firearms and record transfers of these firearms.

The interlocutory injunction means that the transfer of a non-restricted firearm entirely within Quebec (buyer and seller residents of Quebec) will continue to follow the normal transfer process of a non-restricted registered firearm.

However, in the case of a bi-provincial transfer of a non-restricted firearm involving a Quebec resident:

Seller = Non-Quebec resident / Buyer = Quebec resident: The seller is not required to report this transaction to the CFP. The buyer will be instructed to register the firearm via the registration process and not the transfer process (similar to the process for an importation of a new firearm). The registration record for the non-Quebec seller will be expired and eventually deleted.

Seller = Quebec resident / Buyer = Non-Quebec resident: When the Quebec seller informs the CFP of the transaction, the CFP will expire the Quebec registration certificate with a comment that the firearm has been sold (transferred) to a person/business not residing in Quebec. No information will be retained on the buyer.

Note for Quebec businesses only:

In order to facilitate high volume transfer transactions from a Quebec business to a non-Quebec business (such as the transfer of more than 10 firearms at a time), it is recommended that the business lists the firearms to be transferred in a spreadsheet format, and email this spreadsheet directly to: cfrimport_group@rcmp-grc.gc.ca. Please ensure this spreadsheet includes the Registration Certificate Number and the Firearms Identification Number of the firearms being transferred.

Individuals and businesses purchasing or otherwise acquiring firearms are still responsible for having a firearms licence, and businesses are still required to verify a purchaser’s licence. Businesses can still call the CFP’s toll-free number to confirm the validity of a purchaser’s licence before making a sale.

Reminders for Businesses:

When you call to check the validity of your Buyer’s Possession and Acquisition Licence, you will be required to provide the buyer’s licence number, name and date of birth.
Remember to update your employee list.

For more information, please contact the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program.

THIS is the latest set of instructions, blue is my emphasis....
John

 

[Wired leader]

So again....I will ask.
What is Marstar's current policy on purchases by Quebec residents?...for non-restricted.

 

[patric25]

July 3, 2012

For information

The Government of Canada has introduced new Firearms Act regulations impacting business licence conditions. These regulations, which came into effect on June 29, 2012, provide that businesses will not be required as a condition of a licence to collect and keep data with respect to the transfer of non-restricted firearms.

For more information, please contact the RCMP CFP.

This bulletin is intended to provide general information only. For legal references, please refer to the Firearms Act and Regulations. Provincial, territorial and municipal laws, regulations and policies may also apply.

 

[Gorno]

Very interesting thread.....

 

[x0ra]

X0ra;
Have you (ie. Marstar) ever done a non-restricted transfer YES

and/or registration for firearm YES


sold to Quebec's customer, YES


*after* the destriction of the LGR ? YES

If yes, are you pursuing such registration ? NO

Your requested Yes or no replies...
John

Thanks ! This is ALL I asked for.

 

[Gorno]

I saw no law stating it was the dealers responsibility to register a quebec buyers firearm.

(This is the part where you cite the law to prove me wrong)

I think I'm just going to start talking down to you as well John.

Lets see who can win the biggest D*** award on CGN shall we?

Seriously though:

You ever notice your communication style illicits a pile of negative response? You ever notice how your competitors don't talk to people with this kind of attitude? You ever notice how things go much smoother on your competitor's boards?
We still have free speech so do as you like but as a business man, where is the financial incentive for condescending communication styles?
If the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, would it not be more financially sound to simply be polite, non condescending or insulting and simply respond in professional, courteous and forthright manners, explaining all details in one go? You are on the defensive all the time, even when you shouldn't be.

I already know the answers to my questions, I just ask you since I am quite baffled by your desire to insinuate your potential customers are either too ignorant it would take too much time to set the record straight or too dumb to comprehend. This is the essence of how your communication comes across and why people are insulted by you.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm thick skinned, I'll survive your insinuation that I'm a bit s l o w so you have to type s l o w l y for me. In fact you can say anything you like to me, I'll just smile and respond. In the end, there is no logical or financial reason to follow the YAD principle in a niche market, so I guess I am just curious as to why you do it.

Jason

Not the first time this subject has been brought up.

 

[Tuco Pike]

Man I wish marstar had something I wanted. I want to buy something from them. All this nonsense makes me feel dirty to be on CGN right now. We attack a vendor that has done good works, we cry about his adherence, right or wrong to ridiculous legislation. We all need to take a look in the mirror and realize that it is OUR FAULT that the firearms act is in place, not the businesses that need to work under it, incorrectly or not. Stop worrying about if the government knows you have guns and what they are, and START worrying that the government knows that you will BEND OVER and GIVE THEM UP. Blaming Marstar because of an error in policy (again right or wrong) that doesn't shield a firearms purchase is cowardice. When Justin Trudeau says you must register your guns again, send in a note saying "No". When they say you must, say "No", when they come for your guns, say "No". We should all be nice until it is time to not be nice. Marstar can't do it for you, CSSA can't do it for you, NFA can't do it for you, Ian Thompson can't do it for you (he did it for himself), only the individual can determine what their freedoms and rights are worth, don't hide behind a little piece of paper (or lack thereof).

Now off to Marstars site to see if something strikes my fancy.

 

[RageStation]

PLEASE take a moment to read;


Individuals and businesses purchasing or otherwise acquiring firearms are still responsible for having a firearms licence, and businesses are still required to verify a purchaser’s licence. Businesses can still call the CFP’s toll-free number to confirm the validity of a purchaser’s licence before making a sale.

Reminders for Businesses:

When you call to check the validity of your Buyer’s Possession and Acquisition Licence, you will be required to provide the buyer’s licence number, name and date of birth.
Remember to update your employee list.

For more information, please contact the RCMP Canadian Firearms Program.

THIS is the latest set of instructions, blue is my emphasis....
John

Yes, we are aware of what the law requires....i.e. that as an Ontario business you are not required to register a firearm being sold to a Quebec resident...the onus is on the buyer. The OP was asking you to clarify your position on the matter..asking you to state what your policy is.
For some reason, you are still unwilling to do this.
I'm not sure why that is....or why you do it in the first place. Your response of having to follow the law obviously doesn't hold any water.

Going out on a limb here for John; but I take it he's still completing his legal task to contact CFC when he's selling firearms over the internet to verify validity of said card holders license. Just a shot in the dark here; but did none of you take into account that the CFC would use that information to REGISTER the gun?

Everything is there to have it done, and streamline the process for the owner to stay legal. I don't agree with registry being worth the cost; but if the people at CFC are going to streamline keeping YOU legit... well I can only give em a nod of gratitude. Usually Gov organizations are under constant fire for being useless, slow and wasting time.



All information IS there for the registry process. Name, address, LICENSE, and the firearm is verified by the store. When registry first started for the non-restricted long guns, businesses were under constant flood of people needing firearms verified before they started verifying over the phone ((which was far simpler)).


I wouldn't be turnin' my sights on Johnone so fast here; I suspect the CFC's got their foot in this as well.

 

[jbrow397]

Ok. OP. what was the exact date of your purchase that you feel was incorrectly registered by Marstar?

Lets take that date and match it to the bulliten at that time.

If it was stated that the dealer is responsible for registry, then John is in the clear

If it is only the buyer's responsibility at the time of this purchase, then Marstar has made a mistake

I'm on my iPhone at work, so anyone on a comp that can look this up, go for it so we can put this mess to bed.

 

[x0ra]

So again....I will ask.
What is Marstar's current policy on purchases by Quebec residents?...for non-restricted.

Please, John has already been answering this question above[0]. There is no reason to continue further now that everything has been sorted out. Everybody will be entitled to their opinion following this thread and life will go on happily ever-after.



[0]: as I interpret it (non native English speaker, the "such registration" in my question referred to "non-restricted firearm sold Quebec customer"

 

[Wired leader]

Going out on a limb here for John; but I take it he's still completing his legal task to contact CFC when he's selling firearms over the internet to verify validity of said card holders license. Just a shot in the dark here; but did none of you take into account that the CFC would use that information to REGISTER the gun?

Everything is there to have it done, and streamline the process for the owner to stay legal. I don't agree with registry being worth the cost; but if the people at CFC are going to streamline keeping YOU legit... well I can only give em a nod of gratitude. Usually Gov organizations are under constant fire for being useless, slow and wasting time.



All information IS there for the registry process. Name, address, LICENSE, and the firearm is verified by the store. When registry first started for the non-restricted long guns, businesses were under constant flood of people needing firearms verified before they started verifying over the phone ((which was far simpler)).


I wouldn't be turnin' my sights on Johnone so fast here; I suspect the CFC's got their foot in this as well.

The cfc does not need any info on any guns to check the validity of a PAL....not sure how you made that leap.

Perhaps he has answered the OP's questions, but I for one would like John to clarify what Marstar's current policy is on purchases, but Quebec residents. I have not said anything bad about John or Marstar, but feel he has danced around the questions and will not flat out state what their policy is.

 

[aakoksal]

So again....I will ask.
What is Marstar's current policy on purchases by Quebec residents?...for non-restricted.

I think post #141 has the answer you are looking for.

I don't think any business buying/selling guns will go above and beyond what is required by the law in terms of record keeping and/or registration. That is against the nature of their existence.

I don't know John in any way, but I did business with Marstar and I find them law abiding, respectable organization to deal with. They will continue to have my business.

 

[Wired leader]

Please, John has already been answering this question above[0]. There is no reason to continue further now that everything has been sorted out. Everybody will be entitled to their opinion following this thread and life will go on happily ever-after.

[0]: as I interpret it (non native English speaker, the "such registration" in my question referred to "non-restricted firearm sold Quebec customer"

I assumed that is what he meant, but I did ask him to confirm that they are no longer registering non-restricted firearms for Quebec purchasers.
He has yet to reply

 

[johnone]

Here's a guy who is willing to stop tar and feathering one dealer who is no guiltier than the majority of us and see the big picture.
To quote a rather trite and worn out truism: "We either hang together or we'll hang separately"
Together means dealers, individual gun owners, one gun hunters (unfortunately often called fudds), target shooters, MILSURP and black gun owners, collectors, all of us.

I have to agree with you on this one, I ahve always contended that we were our own worst enemy....

I started preaching and fighting this ongoing battle back in the 1960s, then we could not garner any reaction when we said they were coming after our FAs.... Well we know what happened

Then there was the matter of CAs, "no they won't bother with them" we were told, again that's history

"Don't worry they only want to register your CAs" gee that went well....

"They would not dare to change the status of your registered CAs".... Of course not.... But then again, aren't they still doing that ??

Then of course there were the numerous changes by OICs.... But again the government simply gave themselves the power,by OIC, to issue as many OICs as they wanted.... There is democracy at its best....

On the list goes on and on....
Later came Bill C-68, we are all familiar with that wonderful piece of legislation, it banned, prohibited and restricted what ever was left from the previous campaigns....

I have been active in the fight for over half a century why don't some of these folks dedicate more effort to working, volunteering, contributing to your political party, your local MP, the CSSA, the NFA go out and do something instead of just making noise ??

I look back on events and think about the time we were on Allan Rocks hit list (raid 1995) because we dared defy....

Then again there was the Fed-up rally, when we were threatened "with repercussions" if we spoke, we not only attended, we did speak.....

How many of the complainers out there can say that they have taken an active hand in the current issues ??????? Stop #####ing and do something

Then on person says that I am a Liberal, now that is a low blow....

John

 

[Wired leader]

I think post #141 has the answer you are looking for.

I don't think any business buying/selling guns will go above and beyond what is required by the law in terms of record keeping and/or registration. That is against the nature of their existence.

I don't know John in any way, but I did business with Marstar and I find them law abiding, respectable organization to deal with. They will continue to have my business.

I have never suggested that they have or should break the law.
From what John has posted(although it took awhile), one could gather that they are no longer registering non-restricted for Quebec purchasers and so I have simply asked him to confirm this is their current policy.

 

[johnone]

I do, and yes, I do have problem with Marstar deciding for me. I am grown up enough to assume my decision to register or not.

Excellent, we will introduce a new policy, Marstar will no longer apply any laws or regulations without asking the client.... a question in our shopping cart could be "do you wish to register this firearm ? Yes or no ?
or perhaps something like "kindly advise if you wis to purchase any firearm without any paper record, yes, no ??

Lets get real people
John

 

[johnone]

this is hilarous.....in a couple days marstar can throw a sale and all will be forgiven......reminds me of tse/swissarms and their latest sale

Why are you blaming TSE, Marstar is to blame, they are responsible for the changes at the CFC....
John