Non-Restricted or Prohibited?

gunzo

gunzo

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I have read through the legal "rules" but it is still unclear to me (probably the way it was intended).

My question is if I have a Remington 870 and purchase/install a new factory manufactured barrel of 12.5" from a respected dealer/manufacturer and also replace the original Remington 870 stock with a pistol grip the overall length of the firearm would become less then 26" (Approx 22").


Would my firearm still be non-restricted?

or

Would my firearm now become prohibited as the overall length is < 26"?

:confused:

OVERALL LENGTH LESS THAN 26"/660mm RULES:

CC s. 84(1) "prohibited firearm" (b): This is another clause of the same law -- the one cited immediately above -- and it applies in the same way. If the firearm ARRIVES at the "less than 26"/660mm in overall length" condition by "sawing, cutting" etc., then it is forced into the "prohibited firearm" class. If it left the factory at that too-short length, the limit does NOT apply. It is non-restricted, UNLESS it is semi-automatic AND centrefire.

Example: A Remington Model 870 pump-action shotgun that has been fitted with a Scattergun Technologies 12"/305mm barrel and a Pachmayr pistol grip is less than 26"/660mm in overall length, but is NOT "prohibited." It is a "prohibited firearm" if this was done to a Remington 870 that left the factory with those parts, but it is non-restricted if it was re-manufactured and left the Scattergun Technologies factory with them. It doesn't HAVE to make sense -- it's GOVERNMENT POLICY.

Note that WHICH class the short firearm becomes -- non-restricted, "restricted" OR "prohibited" -- depends upon HOW it ARRIVED at that shortened length. That strongly reinforces what I have said above about the length determination --
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Source: http://www.nfa.ca/node/128
 
I'm still new to the short shotty world, but my guess would be: If you do it yourself, it's a prohib. If you send it to a company, and they do it for you, it's legit.

Someone else will probably be able to tell you, but I suppose if worse comes to worst, just ship it to a gunsmith or factory that can install the parts for you... it'll cost you a few bucks, but in my perspective it should put the legal concerns on the person doing the modifications, not the person who owns it. It's like taking your car into the shop to get it worked on... if you do something yourself that you know to be illegal, then you're at fault. If the shop agrees to do something illegal, without informing you of it, then it's their fault. Just my two cents...
 
because the 870 is a manually operated action, the barrel length can be as short as you like, but if its shorter than 18" the barrel has to be manufactured at that length i.e. dlask barrel. Swapping it in only requires that you inform your CFO that barrel length has changed. BUT swapping in the pistol grip will reduce OAL below 26" making it restricted, and this MUST be reported to the CFO as well. AFAIK once you re-class to restricted, you are stuck with it. No going back.
 
There is a disconnect between the language of the act, and the interpretation.

In your example, swapping out factory or commercially available parts does not meet the definition of creating a prohib, so the gun is legal.

The gun in question is in theory still non-restricted, as the short barrel and short OAL don't automaticly lump them in as restricted.

However, the RCMP have taken the somewhat arbitrary position that a gun shorter than 26 inches is by default a handgun, and in the absence of a legal challenge to that interpretation, it is the default standard.
 
The mares-leg is shorter than 26" and it is non restricted. The RCMP decided anything that has a pistol grip and a less than 16" barrel is a hand gun and is restricted.
 
I thought it was 12"? Ah who knows what they "think", or IF they think. The firearms act looks like swiss cheese after a case of buckshot, with a fat rich pompass ass inbred politician politely serving it to the Canadian people as caviar...dont eat that s**t
 
Canuck223 said:
However, the RCMP have taken the somewhat arbitrary position that a gun shorter than 26 inches is by default a handgun, and in the absence of a legal challenge to that interpretation, it is the default standard.
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What about the TP9? 5.9" barrel; 11.92" long - 20.6" with folding stock extended. Is it limited to 5 rounds because it's classified as a "commercial version" of the MP9?
 
Canuck223 said:
There is a disconnect between the language of the act, and the interpretation.

In your example, swapping out factory or commercially available parts does not meet the definition of creating a prohib, so the gun is legal.

The gun in question is in theory still non-restricted, as the short barrel and short OAL don't automaticly lump them in as restricted.

However, the RCMP have taken the somewhat arbitrary position that a gun shorter than 26 inches is by default a handgun, and in the absence of a legal challenge to that interpretation, it is the default standard.
Click to expand...

This is not only the stupidest thing I've ever read, it's also 100% correct, which is enough to make a grown man cry. This is what happens when governments let police and bureaucrats do the government's job. Unelected officials should have NO part in making laws, enforcing certainly, but not by any stretch making them.

ETA CORRECTION

sunray said:
"...less then 26"..." Prohibited. Shotguns with only a pistol grip are the most useless thing on Earth.
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That's the stupidest thing I've read
 
curtmg said:
That's the stupidest thing I've read
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Ahh yes, the obligatory sunray quote whenever a pistol grip shotgun is discussed. So full of insight, wisdom, and supported by strong facts. Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks it's :jerkit:
 
So... much... misinformation.... about... to... vomit...

RCMP new policy is anything not already restricted with a sub 16" bbl and a pistol grip only stock is considered a pistol and therefore restricted.

Prohibited: Rifle or shotgun REDUCTION IN OAL to 26" by cutting/sawing/non factory or non gunsmith modification. Factory bbl swap out, factory stock swap out or gunsmith cut down & re-crown of existing bbl ok.

Restricted: Any firearm designed or adapted to be fired WHEN REDUCED to less than 26" by means of folding/telescoping/collapsing, etc.. Ex: a pump shotgun with a 8" bbl, fixed full stock and 22" OAL is NON RESTRICTED, because the shotgun is not semi and not capable of being reduced by folding/telescoping to less than 26" and being fired.

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/st...ml#PART_III_FIREARMS_AND_OTHER_WEAPONS_551284
 
mmattockx said:
...cutting it shorter than 18" makes it prohibited.
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Yep, I just spoke to a local shop about shortening the barrel and installing an adjustable choke, and they told me that they won't cut it down below 18", even if I want them to permanently mount something to end to bring it over 18.5" again (like the choke).

To the OP: I can't remember if you said you already have the parts or not, but if you have them, did you get them online or in a store? If you bought them from a reputable shop, then they probably would've informed you if it's illegal to use both the barrel and stock on the same firearm.
 
Technically if it is cut below 18.5" it is a prohib. The idea that a gunsmith can do it comes from the fact that a barrel can be "remanufactured" and be legal, not sure exactly what qualifications are required to do that though. Also it is my understanding that if it is sawed(or similar) under 26" it is prohib, but if it is under 26" by folding, telescoping, manufactured parts, etc. then it is restricted.
 
blaxsun said:
What about the TP9? 5.9" barrel; 11.92" long - 20.6" with folding stock extended. Is it limited to 5 rounds because it's classified as a "commercial version" of the MP9?
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It's a default position for the RCMP. If the same gun came without a stock, it would be considered a pistol, and the 10 round mags would be kosher. Except in the case of the TP9, if it came without a stock, it would probably be prohibited as a varient of the TMP (?)
 
pope_face said:
Yep, I just spoke to a local shop about shortening the barrel and installing an adjustable choke, and they told me that they won't cut it down below 18", even if I want them to permanently mount something to end to bring it over 18.5" again (like the choke).
Click to expand...

AlbertaGunslinger said:
Technically if it is cut below 18.5" it is a prohib.
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18" is the limit for prohib, not 18.5". Semi-auto centerfires must have an 18.5" barrel to remain non-restricted.

Mark
 
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