Norc bashing is it really warranted?

I bought the wife a JW-15 bolt action .22lr and hated it, it had terrible craftsmanship in the machining. I sold it for exactly what I paid for it so not a big deal.

I own and shoot the following,

Norc AR-15 10.5" - about 1200 rounds so far, bought brand new
Norc T97 - about 300 rounds so far, bought brand new
Norc 9mm 1911 - about 500 rounds so far from me, bought this one used, unsure of total round count

The 3 that I still own are excellent and I would never consider getting rid of them.
 
I've had a few Norc M201 9mm's.
Had to replace the bbl bushing several times. On one you could see the void in the metal from the casting sand. Finally went to a FSU bbl bushing from Tradex.
Average guns IMO...they shoot OK
 
Just to add my $0.02

There is nothing wrong with Norinco firearms. They are what they are...cheap & reliable equipment for the "not-so-serious" shooting sports enthusiast. Norinco addresses a market for low cost entry to our sport/hobby. I believe nobody buys a Norinco because they believe it is the best or awesome or other reason except to preserve financial resources and it does that quite well. Just because you can't (or won't) afford a Colt, Sig or Remington doesn't mean you shouldn't shoot guns. Given the choice (and having the money), I prefer to spend more and get better quality, fit & finish. I don't own any Norinco's but I won't discredit those that do.
 
randyhub said:
Well seems we have a few more PRO comments here with the odd horror story.

My question stills stands are these getting bashed too much as I keep hearing about Colt, Beretta, and Glock issues but little bashing why?

I used to have a Dodge Caravan, the transmission fell out at 113k, I was in the repair shop he said yeah do a few a week I said so all Dodges are a POS he said well some are some aren't but when you have 10 times as many on the road over Hondas of course you will hear more complaints I think that is the case here as well.

Seems we will always have nay sayers with bigger budgets but I will remain objective as opposed to closed minded.

Oh and for those that say they don't want to support the Chinese, look at your Iphone, PC, house appliances and US made with Chinese parts.........................

If you drive an American car good chance the brake rotors are Chinese, funny bet you are not pulling them off for German

Randy
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Your arguements about more being sold here does not hold water, on a global scale glocks outsell norcs heavily, yet have less issues, very few serious shooters run norcs, and even casual plinkers have trouble with them, what does that tell you?

And no I don't drive an american car, nor do I plan on it anytime soon unless I can afford a ford gt anytime soon(highly unlikely) and the brakes on both my cars are italian made brembo blanks with one of them soon to become british made ap racing bbk, thanks for playing try again.
 
I would be VERY surprised if Glock outsold Norinco on the global market, even if you limited the category just to small arms.

edit - from Wikipedia:

"The China North Industries Corporation (simplified Chinese: 北方工业; traditional Chinese: 北方工業; pinyin: Běifāng Gōngyè; literally: "North Industries"), officially Norinco, is a Chinese company that manufactures vehicles (trucks, cars and motorcycles), machinery, optical-electronic products, oil field equipment, chemicals, light industrial products, explosives and blast materials, civil and military firearms and ammunition, etc. Norinco is also involved in domestic civil construction projects.

Norinco is also known outside of China for its high-tech defense products. Norinco produces precision strike systems, amphibious assault weapons and equipment, long-range suppression weapon systems, anti-aircraft & anti-missile systems, information & night vision products, high-effect destruction systems,[1] fuel air bombs, anti-riot equipment and small arms."
 
FYI.. I am referring to the CQA/DA556 line of Norincos in local TAC Rifle Matches. It shoots about 2MOA with 3x magnified RDS and cheap Norc/factory ammo (I haven't tried with my handloads or match ammo yet as there was no need ), and the longest target in our "run n gun" style matches is a 4" round steel plate at 100yards. No experience with the M14 Norc variant and nobody I've seen at our matches runs those.

I guess my point is this: In the above match conditions, if a Norc AR rifle shoots about the same accuracy as more expensive AR rifles, has the same reliability, and you don't care about name brand or the shiny fit and finish, then ........... why not? Don't get me wrong, even though we may all be "pikers" (love that term), I still love seeing the expensive kit some of the competitors bring, and I definitely appreciate the fit and finish of a Daniel Defense, Colt, BCM, etc. But I would honestly be too apprehensive about marking up a nice rifle, especially with some of the fun "get dirty" type stuff the match stages require at times.

One Lung Wonder said:
Anything is possible at an informal shoot where pikers with bargain basement guns and ammo might outshoot another piker with quality equipment I suppose. And gawd knows it doesn't get much more informal than the clubs I shoot at...but if you think you are going to take me to school with a Norc M14 I have some very, very bad news for you. Given the QA/QC issues I steer the noobs away from them if I can. For $450.00 you can get a great milsurp K98 or K31 and shoot circles around any Norc off the rack and most that have been 'accurized'.

But the fact is that if you are going to seriously compete - the Norcs are better left in the bargain bin or left for the noobs to play with.
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Tigerbalm said:
FYI.. I am referring to the CQA/DA556 line of Norincos in local TAC Rifle Matches. It shoots about 2MOA with 3x magnified RDS and cheap Norc/factory ammo (I haven't tried with my handloads or match ammo yet as there was no need ), and the longest target in our "run n gun" style matches is a 4" round steel plate at 100yards. No experience with the M14 Norc variant and nobody I've seen at our matches runs those.

I guess my point is this: In the above match conditions, if a Norc AR rifle shoots about the same accuracy as more expensive AR rifles, has the same reliability, and you don't care about name brand or the shiny fit and finish, then ........... why not? Don't get me wrong, even though we may all be "pikers" (love that term), I still love seeing the expensive kit some of the competitors bring, and I definitely appreciate the fit and finish of a Daniel Defense, Colt, BCM, etc. But I would honestly be too apprehensive about marking up a nice rifle, especially with some of the fun "get dirty" type stuff the match stages require at times.
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That was fairly obvious, (to me) hence the sarcastic comment about competing with a K98 - but I guess we were getting the 'bait and switch'.
 
Hitzy said:
Pretty much sums it up. I've owned several pistols and rifles, still have a shotty and M14, couple .22's, bought the first in the late '90 and the fit and finish is appalling and really can't be overlooked, believe me... I tried. Nobody would accept that shoddy level of QC from ANY north american or european manufacturer, but somehow it's OK if its Chinese and $50-$100 cheaper then some equivalent US/EURO made firearm? Many need work out of the box just to be barely acceptable, or even to function properly, again, not something anybody would tolerate on a new US made firearm.
I actually don't understand the blind praise these things get....seriously. I really just have to chalk it up to inexperience shooters, or people that just don't know any better. Not trying to be rude or anything, just stating the obvious. There are some experienced shooters that use the 1911's and have pointed out the short comings, they correct all the flaws, replace barrels, etc and turn them into decent shooters. I can respect that, because they know what they are doing, they know what actual good shooting is.
In my experience when you buy Chinese (Norinco doesn't make guns) you get OK external finish, terrible internal finish, sloppy fitting parts, mediocre accuracy providing you can actually shoot, and usually it will function out of the box. You could also get worse in any of those categories.
I guess as long as people keep gobbling up the cheap no QC chinese guns then they will have no reason to improve them....
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I find each offering is different. Different models.. different production runs of each model perhaps?
IIRC NORINCO is a large company (the gov't) that sells products that are manufactured by many other smaller companies. Like the venerable SKS/type 56 that was made at so many factories.. each one a little different than the other.
Some early stuff coming out of Norinco was really sketchy.. like the early m305 with soft bolts, or those ghastly $99 security shotguns with cast metal bolt blocks!! They adapt quickly though, and seem to enhance their products as the market dictates like the better bolts on the newer m305, and the better fit and finish on each newer product run, like their AR offerings.
YES... the internals on Norcs often have rough edges that need tweaking for gritty triggers, or a smoother slide/bolt, but I have never had one malfunction personally. That is sks,m305,1911,hp9/870 (x3)... countless rounds through each. And those are just the ones I have owned. I have shot almost all of their offerings.
YES.. they are guilty of investigating far out ideas that don't pan out (like mag fed shotguns IMHO) but so do companies like mossberg with their chainsaw shotgun stupidity... or that tactical (LOL) side/side shotgun

In a nutshell it is hit and miss with exterior fit and finish (but mostly improving).. internals often need smoothing, materials are as good or better than competitors, though the tolerances and testing data are ??? in China... 90 percent of the time they are a good deal on a solid plinking gun.
They are, at their best, as good or better than other similar priced guns. They are, at their worst, as bad as other similarly priced guns. :)

c'mon.. I think you can still get a brand new Norc 1911 for $325 if you dig around the sponsors! I have personally shot at least five of them, all gov't and sport models. All had great accuracy at 15 yrds, durable finishes and functioned well with the right magazines (critical!!|)

They have a niche all of their own!
 
enefgee said:
That was fairly obvious, (to me) hence the sarcastic comment about competing with a K98 - but I guess we were getting the 'bait and switch'.
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LOL. Nope, No agenda or deceit here, NFG. To be honest I really don't care enough to try and argue with stupid people using nefarious tactics and lies. If you want to think your Norc is as good as a high end match gun...you have my permission. I am a gun club duffer with no real interest in pi$$ing matches, and if there is an argument here I will concede it to you and be done with it.

Tiger...I will let you in on a horrible secret that I learned the hard way after a life time of humiliating and galling matches with my fellow gun clubbers, pikers and duffers: the guy with the pristine gun is USUALLY nothing to worry about. If you are competing against a guy with a rifle that looks like it has been through WW1, 2 AND 3...watch out! Late model guns that look well-used usually are - and their owners have honest experience and skills as a result! :)

I've seen a few Norc AR's around but none of them are coming in anywhere near 2 MOA in my neck of the woods. I've only seen about a half dozen, mind you...but they were all coming in at around 6~8. Maybe they were just newbies learning how to shoot.
 
r34skyline said:
Your arguements about more being sold here does not hold water, on a global scale glocks outsell norcs heavily, yet have less issues, very few serious shooters run norcs, and even casual plinkers have trouble with them, what does that tell you?

And no I don't drive an american car, nor do I plan on it anytime soon unless I can afford a ford gt anytime soon(highly unlikely) and the brakes on both my cars are italian made brembo blanks with one of them soon to become british made ap racing bbk, thanks for playing try again.
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Playing again? Love it! And yes I miss my BIG RED Brembos on my Turbo before kids, your turn. :)
 
I have several myself and use them very regularly, I shoot purely for enjoyment at least twice or more a week, shooting the same things all the time bore the living hell out of me, I need many choices, norc helps me out with this tremendously, my last 5 purchases, ns522, dom arms 556 lightweight, browning take down knockoff 22 semi auto {sorry model # evading me} gsg 1911 22lr and a NAA earl {my lovely wife bought me for xmas} so I don't buy anything exclusively I just love guns, including my norcs, I personally get a little sick and tired of the "you get what you pay for" bullsh1t. nothing is further from the truth, I bought a new Harley before, is it the best built motorcycle for the money? I seriously doubt it, probably much more technology, power and workmanship could have been had for less money, however its what the fuch I wanted so that's what I bought, pretty sure in every category of product there is entry level pricepoints middle ground and more expensive than its worth category. and fact of the matter, most firearms norinco included are more accurate than most shooters can shoot them, just watch the miculek with an sks video.

funny story un norc related, but could easily have been a norc I was shooting, I was at the range plowing through a bunch of 7.62 with a Russian sks, the guy 2 stalls over kind of shooting me dirty looks had a ridiculously expensive lapua with about $2500 worth of glass alone on it, when time came to change targets he was talking about how "those things" drive him crazy {sks's} and how he is shooting 4 bucks a rd. ammo, while his gun definitely was awesome, I do believe I had more fun with my $200 set up than he did that day, mostly due to his attitude, moral of the story stop being a gun bashing douche, we are all on the same team. some may hug their glock and some their grizzly, after you finish school does it really matter who's gun is better??
 
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One Lung Wonder said:
LOL. Nope, No agenda or deceit here, NFG. To be honest I really don't care enough to try and argue with stupid people using nefarious tactics and lies. If you want to think your Norc is as good as a high end match gun...you have my permission. I am a gun club duffer with no real interest in pi$$ing matches, and if there is an argument here I will concede it to you and be done with it.

Tiger...I will let you in on a horrible secret that I learned the hard way after a life time of humiliating and galling matches with my fellow gun clubbers, pikers and duffers: the guy with the pristine gun is USUALLY nothing to worry about. If you are competing against a guy with a rifle that looks like it has been through WW1, 2 AND 3...watch out! Late model guns that look well-used usually are - and their owners have honest experience and skills as a result! :)

I've seen a few Norc AR's around but none of them are coming in anywhere near 2 MOA in my neck of the woods. I've only seen about a half dozen, mind you...but they were all coming in at around 6~8. Maybe they were just newbies learning how to shoot.
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Thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure I'm squadded with the shiny AR people next match and let you know how it goes. :d

Regarding the accuracy. It probably helps that I free floated the barrel with a proper full rail. LOL. Below pic is from our local clubs lower range at 50M. Using a 2MOA Red Dot and 3X magnifier and Norc Ammo, shooting off a bag. 2nd Group in the middle would technically be under 2MOA. I'm curious what it could do with a proper scope reticle and my handloads, it's just that I'm too damn lazy to mount a scope. :p

img_6024-0.jpg
 
Norc ammo for me starts to spread out at 100m, is useless at 200m (10 shots to break a clay on the berm is common), and even when free-floated the CQ rifle starts to fling them all over when it starts to get hot.

Handloading shows promise, however...provided the barrel isn't allowed to heat up.
 
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