Norinco 10/22?

[rethius]

That $250 ruger 10/22 sure does break the bank!

A $2000 Springfield m1A vs a $450 M305 is understandable, perhaps I'm missing something here. I see 10/22s available at many local gun shops ... There is a bit of a shortage during gopher season, but you can still find them.

I'd rather pay $250 on a gun made by our struggling friends down south then spend $125 on a communist cosmoline-infused hunk of crap from china!

 

[ambishooter]

Armscor's Rimfire, Bolt action in particular are reliable. My late dad had one in the 50s until he gave it to his brother-in-law. The last time I saw it, now with my cousin, it still shoots good. Their rimfire semi-autos are not bad. The now have an above average quality and manufacturing system. Parts interchangeability has improved in the last few years. They invested in modern tools and equipment. They can move to the upper level of firearms industry, but they decided to put a dent in the commercial market wherein affordability is the major factor. With few other companies now exporting globally like SAM and Metro Arms, Armscor has to keep its level of quality and affordability to keep a portion of the market they belong.

 

[Pocisk]

That $250 ruger 10/22 sure does break the bank!

A $2000 Springfield m1A vs a $450 M305 is understandable, perhaps I'm missing something here. I see 10/22s available at many local gun shops ... There is a bit of a shortage during gopher season, but you can still find them.

I'd rather pay $250 on a gun made by our struggling friends down south then spend $125 on a communist cosmoline-infused hunk of crap from china!

^^^^^ what he said. Or better yet, if we're going to clone them, let's do it here. We still have Canadian fabricators, right? So is 10/22 public domain? No patent issues?

 

[Home3]

Because 10/22 blueprints are readily available, and tons of companies other than ruger already make pretty much every single part.

would there be any chance of seeing chinese 10/22's? with ruger not properly satisfying the market, they seem like they'd sell like hotcakes

If they do, I hope they make it a bit more accurate!

 

[CanAm]

^^^^^ what he said. Or better yet, if we're going to clone them, let's do it here. We still have Canadian fabricators, right? So is 10/22 public domain? No patent issues?

dlask does it. making them in canada would be a specialty market i.e. higher retail than ruger. we don't make barrels in Canada.

 

[trebor2880]

I'd like to know why Ruger can't bump up production and get some 10/22's delivered?What is the problem?

Ruger's QC is already lacking, due to them trying to keep up with the panic buying of their customers in the States.
If they bump it up any more, their products will start looking like something coming from a Marlin factory.
Our best chance of a well made 10/22 with a reciever made from solid metal, is if it came from Norinco.
Sad, but oh-so-true!

 

[MegaMonkeyChunk]

One day... maybe...

 

[ThinkThank]

That $250 ruger 10/22 sure does break the bank!

A $2000 Springfield m1A vs a $450 M305 is understandable, perhaps I'm missing something here. I see 10/22s available at many local gun shops ... There is a bit of a shortage during gopher season, but you can still find them.

I'd rather pay $250 on a gun made by our struggling friends down south then spend $125 on a communist cosmoline-infused hunk of crap from china!

TRUTH!
10/22 are popular because they are cheap and well made. They shoot well for people who can take the time to find the right ammo for the rifle.
To save MAYBE 100 dollars to buy a crappy Norinco over a 10/22 would be absurd.

 

[Chilidog]

To save MAYBE 100 dollars to buy a crappy Norinco over a 10/22 would be absurd.

You can't find a Ruger in Canada, so the comparison isn't useful.

 

[trebor2880]

To save MAYBE 100 dollars to buy a crappy Norinco over a 10/22 would be absurd.

My bets would be on Norinco to come out with a better 10/22.
American QC with firearms has hit an all time low, while Norinco's keep getting better, surpassing U.S. guns, in many cases.
Don't like supporting the Communists? Then stay out of Dollarama, Walmart, CTC, etc, ect, ect.

 

[ThinkThank]

My bets would be on Norinco to come out with a better 10/22.
American QC with firearms has hit an all time low, while Norinco's keep getting better, surpassing U.S. guns, in many cases.
Don't like supporting the Communists? Then stay out of Dollarama, Walmart, CTC, etc, ect, ect.

You cant be serious... Look at the tooling/machining marks on ANY norinco firearms. Take the AR CQC for example. Fit and finish is atrocious. You cant really compare that to any of the lower end american made AR-15's. Olympic AR's retail for about 100 dollars more than the Norinco's. I'd take an american made AR over a chinese one any day of the week.

 

[Colin]

As long as they pay attention to the details like US spec dovetails, threads. Throw in a beefy receiver and a trigger mech that accepts aftermarket parts and you might have a winner.

 

[harbl_the_cat]

+1 for a Nork 10/22 knock off - in particular if they make a restricted, short barreled pistol version that doesn't have the ridiculous laminate stock that the Charger comes with out of the box.

10/22 Archangel style pistols FTW.

I suspect there could be a real market for a tacticool, .22 sub-gun style pistol that takes 10/22 Butler Creek 25 rounders or the Blackdog 50 round drums.

I sure love mine - it's probably the funnest gun I have to shoot - but $700 for it (gun + stock), not including red dot and iron sites was a bit steep.

Bring these in for under $450 with iron sights (I think MSRP for a Charger, which are as rare as Unicorn's in Canada) and a single Butler Creek 25 round banana mag, knock off FVG and I think you have a real winner. Even with a knock off FVG from DX, it would be a total win.

Heck, even if you just sold the action and if the action fit an archangel stock - they would sell.

I believe Chinese and Canadian capitalists can make it happen.

 

[Travis Bickle]

Norinco corners commercial markets with unauthorized reproductions of guns that cost way more money than they ever should due to ridiculous union wages in factories here in North America.

The Ruger 10/22 is not one of those rifles lol

I picked up a used one a ways back for $200 shipped to my door off the EE!

Now if they started producing AR180's or FG42's..............

 

[trebor2880]

You cant be serious... Look at the tooling/machining marks on ANY norinco firearms. Take the AR CQC for example. Fit and finish is atrocious. You cant really compare that to any of the lower end american made AR-15's. Olympic AR's retail for about 100 dollars more than the Norinco's. I'd take an american made AR over a chinese one any day of the week.

You haven't seen a new Norinco lately, eh. Take a look at a 1911, M-93 or a JW-25A.
I had the good fortune of aquiring a Colt Woodsman, at a reasonable price on E.E.
Besides the longer barrel length of the Colt, you couldn't tell them apart(M-93), as far as fit and finish, was concerned.
And I have no desire to search for a better 1911, than my Norinco Sport.
Don't knock 'em till you tried them!
Granted, my older 305 and 311 rifles, left a bit to be desired, in the fit and finish department.

 

[harbl_the_cat]

Norinco corners commercial markets with unauthorized reproductions of guns that cost way more money than they ever should due to ridiculous union wages in factories here in North America.

The Ruger 10/22 is not one of those rifles lol

I'd beg to differ.

Wild guess - the material costs for a 10/22 rifle probably are no more than $20-30. Let's say $40.

MSRP here in Canada for a stock model is $240.

Let's say Ruger paid all it's workers minimum wage ($8.25/hour) - that would mean 24 man-hours of low skill labour would be required to build a 10/22.

Conversely, in China, university educated professionals are lucky to make $8.25/hour. I bet you could hire a half a dozen machinists, millwrights, or CNC operators in China for $8.25/hour with comparable skill to their American counterparts. Of course, you probably couldn't hire someone in the US with a technical diploma, trades certificate, or university degree to work in their chosen field for $8.25 (Canada either for that matter) - so that's why you see grossly inflated prices for everything produced over here.

Really, I bet you could easily see a $75 Chinese made 10/22, and if so, I'd buy 5.

 

[mr_trout]

+1 for a Nork 10/22 knock off - in particular if they make a restricted, short barreled pistol version that doesn't have the ridiculous laminate stock that the Charger comes with out of the box.

I suspect there could be a real market for a tacticool, .22 sub-gun style pistol that takes 10/22 Butler Creek 25 rounders or the Blackdog 50 round drums.

Have you looked at the Kel-Tec PLR-22?



They take black dog mags and drums, have a nice short barrel, top rail for optics, optional railed hand guard. I paid about $350 new for mine. They are very inexpensive and mine feeds flawlessly off any .22LR I threw at it.

There is also an optional folding stock.

 

[badboybeeson]

You haven't seen a new Norinco lately, eh. Take a look at a 1911, M-93 or a JW-25A.
I had the good fortune of aquiring a Colt Woodsman, at a reasonable price on E.E.
Besides the longer barrel length of the Colt, you couldn't tell them apart(M-93), as far as fit and finish, was concerned.
And I have no desire to search for a better 1911, than my Norinco Sport.
Don't knock 'em till you tried them!
Granted, my older 305 and 311 rifles, left a bit to be desired, in the fit and finish department.

but yet your way off , the "new norinco" your colt woodsman copy "m93" was made 20yrs ago and has been sitting in storage inless last year.
Its all about price, if we wanted a better quality norinco product we could have it, just have to pay more.
Ruger is making a killing on the 10-22, its also the #1 selling 22 rimfire in history.
They cost about $77-$80 to make, they could easly retail for $175 and both ruger, the importer and dealer make a good proffit.
But why whould they when eveyone they have made in the last 15yrs was sold before they made it.
bbb

 

[Mikeschurman]

22 semis are such a crap shoot, its hard enough to find one that works reliably as it is. Why would you want a $75 10/22 knock off that is another jam-o-matic. It would be a 75 dollar paperweight as far as in concerned. I know you norinco supporters will disagree, but take some pride in owning the real thing, not a Chinese knock off

 

[harbl_the_cat]

Have you looked at the Kel-Tec PLR-22?



They take black dog mags and drums, have a nice short barrel, top rail for optics, optional railed hand guard. I paid about $350 new for mine. They are very inexpensive and mine feeds flawlessly off any .22LR I threw at it.

There is also an optional folding stock.

Problem is I have 2 10/22 rifles and dozens of Butler Creek banana mags and a few Black Dog mags with the 10/22 adapter.

That said, I also have about 6 Black dog AR mags for my CMMG conversion kits for my AR's.

I got the Charger before the Kel Tec PLR22 came out and now that you mention it - I think I might have to consider picking one up

22 semis are such a crap shoot, its hard enough to find one that works reliably as it is. Why would you want a $75 10/22 knock off that is another jam-o-matic. It would be a 75 dollar paperweight as far as in concerned. I know you norinco supporters will disagree, but take some pride in owning the real thing, not a Chinese knock off

Oh I love my 3 10/22's. None of them are jam-o-matic's - but if a cheap(er) Chinese knock off hits the market, I'll be all over it and I don't think anyone should be ashamed of doing the same.

I think too many people take too much pride in owning "the real thing" (read: "American) and it discourages people from getting into shooting knowing guys who are "in to it" think you have to pay 50-100% more or feel like they have to keep their guns in the closet.

When I worked retail, I constantly had to reaffirm guys saying "Yeah, I just got a crappy Norinco <x>." I have owned dozens of Norinco guns - and have had only 1 that I really didn't like.

I got more people into shooting telling them the best way to start was buying a $150 Norinco M93, than by telling them to buy a $400 Ruger Buckmark.

American made anything is no longer respectable , especially when there are inexpensive and equivalent alternatives out there - and inexpensive, Asian made anything is the way of the future. In fact, the only way the shooting community in Canada is going to survive is if hordes and hordes of people own guns - for in the eyes of the gun grabbing government, it doesn't matter if it's Chinese or American made. The more guns in private hands, the less bold the government is to try to ban them. Elections and democracy are meaningless. Privately held property and huge markets speaks volumes more than ballots or hand written letters.