norinco guns?

I got sucked into the whole NORC "Its just as good, but not as fancy" So I bought one. Ya its broken after less than 1000 rounds of factory ammo. I keep it as a reminder.

NORCS break all the time and nobody really bats an eye. If a higher end gun breaks down everyone jumps on it.

All guns are mechanical devices, they can break. Buy better quality.
 
Every brand has its place in the market. Otherwise, you wouldn't get as many comments as you do in these types of threads. Just keep in mind that the fit and finish of a $399 gun will not be too comparable to a $899 gun. What you pay is what you get. That is the only thing you need to remember. For instance, I am use to shooting Sig's, HK's, Glocks and Berettas, but I will be purchasing a Norinco Tokarev. I do not expect much from such a pistol, but for the price of $199, that is less than the amount of money I spend on factory ammunition in 3 months. If it breaks, it won't break my heart, because I am going in with low expectations.
 
spi said:
I'm curious as to how you accomplished that. Assuming when you say Tok copy you are referring to the model 54, the only way I could think of to improve the trigger was to mill out a new trigger with a longer stirrup to eliminate the take-up, peen and file the frame around the trigger-group slot to eliminate wobble, and then make jigs to hone the contact surfaces of the trigger-group.

A little too much work for a $129 pistol for me.

If you have an easier method, please share.
Click to expand...


I don't really want to get into it on here but if you work on the 2 flat springs that are applicable and polish ALL the surfaces (especially the important 2) and lessen the engagement a LITTLE bit you end up really good. Mine doesn't wobble that bad and since you work on the one flat spring the take up is smooth and light and when it stops there is no creep.
This took me less than 2hrs
 
pac11 said:
I don't really want to get into it on here but if you work on the 2 flat springs that are applicable and polish ALL the surfaces (especially the important 2) and lessen the engagement a LITTLE bit you end up really good. Mine doesn't wobble that bad and since you work on the one flat spring the take up is smooth and light and when it stops there is no creep.
This took me less than 2hrs
Click to expand...

Mmmm... That's not really addressing the problem as I see it. I polished the hammer/sear interface on my M54 with a ruby stone and it has a satisfactory "break"... when it finally gets there. It's getting there that is the problem.

Even though the trigger tension spring is pressuring the trigger stirrup adequately, the design and dimensions of the trigger allow it to wiggle up and down and from side to side considerably both on engagement with the finger and throughout it's travel to engage the sear. Additionally, there is a "hitch" as it contacts the sear and pushes the trigger-group back in it's slot.

So although it breaks clean, I wouldn't really consider the action smooth or crisp.

Maybe you just got a tighter pistol.
 
Well, Spi, it appears you're unwilling to face up to the fact that pac11 has used his ingenuity to do what you can't :)

Here's a Paradigm: don't make the frame tighter, make the trigger bigger...:)

I'm a pistolsmith, and I admire "talented amateurs" who get in there and do neat stuff.

Gunnar
www.armco-guns.com
 
7x61 said:
Well, Spi, it appears you're unwilling to face up to the fact that pac11 has used his ingenuity to do what you can't :)
Click to expand...

No.

I outlined in detail what I thought I would have do to obtain an "oh so light and crisp" trigger on a Tok, and why it seemed like too much work for such an inexpensive pistol.

The explanation that I got was that it was merely a matter of:

...work on the 2 flat springs that are applicable and polish ALL the surfaces (especially the important 2) and lessen the engagement a LITTLE bit you end up really good.
Click to expand...

Which does not address the issues as I see them, which are, again:

Even though the trigger tension spring is pressuring the trigger stirrup adequately, the design and dimensions of the trigger allow it to wiggle up and down and from side to side considerably both on engagement with the finger and throughout it's travel to engage the sear. Additionally, there is a "hitch" as it contacts the sear and pushes the trigger-group back in it's slot.
Click to expand...

Now, granted, I could solder shims onto the legs of the trigger stirrup and file them down until the trigger was a tight fit. I could also peen the frame to tighten up the gap around the hammer group slot, or shim that as well. But that is not going to correct up and down wiggle. The trigger itself is designed to rock out down over the mag release without having to remove said release. As far as
Make the lightened trigger spring push up on the surface and it won't wiggle so much up and down
Click to expand...
is concerned, again, I'm curious as to how that would be accomplished. Only about 1/16" of the trigger spring on my M54 contacts the stirrup of the trigger. Hardly enough metal to bend a lip to push up on it. I could solder an extension onto it to apply upward pressure on the trigger, I suppose.

I could do all of those things, but that seems like a lot of work for a pistol that I am basically satisfied with, and as I recall from the above quote, all that pac11 required is "working the springs" and "polishing the surfaces" to achieve an "oh so light and crisp trigger". No shimming, etc... needed.

This leads me to believe that either pac11 has a tighter pistol than I do, or we have different ideas about what a good trigger pull is.

So in a sense, yes you are correct. I cannot just "work the springs" and "polish the surfaces" to achieve an "oh so light and crisp" trigger pull on my M54. Kudos to pac11 if he can. I cannot.

If anyone can point out what I am missing, it's you Gunnar. So if I am missing something in all this, what is it?
 
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Yes I could say on here in great detail EXACTLY how to lighten, refit, smooth and make it perfect, which mine is not. I could explain it well enough so my bookkeeper could do it. But guess what? If she screwed it up and shot herself or another I'd be flukked!

My posts were like they were so if someone knows enough to read between the lines a bit and figure a lot out for themselves it would be some help to them. If they can't then they shouldn't.

;) Have fun soldering on that flat spring. Good luck

It's not very nice to attack posts, it's just not.

Mike
 
pac11 said:
;) Have fun soldering on that flat spring. Good luck
Click to expand...

I take your comment to imply that you think that soldering on a spring will anneal it? Perhaps you are unware of the differences between soft soldering and hard soldering.

:roll:

And again, I'm curious, how do you propose that I make that spring "push up" on the stirrup? Surely by describing that you will not be endangering anyone, or putting yourself at risk of liability.

Better yet, why don't you PM me the details and I will take full responsibility for my self. Ok?
 
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I have a Norc 1911A1 "Government" model. Tuned by Gunnar at Armco, right after I got it I changed out the guide rod to a full length SS, SS commander hammer, SS Slide stop, SS extended safety, one piece SS mainspring housing magwell, SS beavertail grip safety, extended mag release, walnut wood grips and aluminium trigger. I made all these changes myself before ever shooting the damn thing. I don't really care about out of the box accuracy or whatever. The reason I bought the gun is that I can do whatever the heck I want with it and get to know the gun better like how it works and stuff. My next projects lined up for the gun is probably a fibre optic front sight, complete nickle plating for both frame and slide, tighten, then lap. Why do I bother doing all this??? BECAUSE IT'S FUN!!! It's almost like building something with unrefined parts lying in front of you. Norcinco guns are UNREFINED guns. Work has to be put into it to make them work smoothly. You can either do it yourself(which is a lotta fun) or get a gunsmith to do it(you lazy rich person!)

Like a lotta ppl who love brand name gun said: you get what you pay for. It's true, you really do. It's like loading your own ammo. You have to clean the brass, get the press ready and load them with by hand using the press. Think of the Norinco you buy as a bunch of components for a 1911A1. You have to clean out the grits, get your self some hand tools and work on the gun until you make it work. You save $$ because of the things you can easily do yourself. Just like you save $$ on ammo because you pull the handle of the press yourself.

So to all Norinco fans. Please don't make it sound like Norincos are built like an STI, they are not. Only after tons and tons of work done on them, can they come close to a STI (while still costing less, even if you get the work done by a gunsmith). To make the gun shoot accurately and reliabily without a lot of cosmetics stuff, it is really not that hard.

And also to brand name gun fans. You rich lazy ppl! LOL get a Norinco and find out how much fun you can have by working on one! You can totally customize it yourself without having to worry about damaging a $2000 dollar gun. But do know that a very large portion of your $$ goes to cosmetics, which of course is nothing wrong with that. I, myself, is a fool for good looking guns. I will definitely get a STI the first chance I get. But please don't put down Norinco guns just because they are cheap and therefore most be POS.

As for the Norc I got, with the factory barrel. I can put 10 rounds in the 10 cycle all day long at 15 meter. And I'm satisfied with that. The gun works well with SWC bullets but not as well with round balls, so what? I'm just gonna stick to the cast lead SWC then. It's for target shooting anyway. The chrome lined barrel works perfectly with lead cast bullets, very little lead build up so much more easier to clean than my CZ Tactical Sport which sports a non-chrome lined barrel.
 
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its all depends how much do you got in your pocket,I like sig 226 I like a colt 1911,but I can`t afforded em, so I buy NP22 NP 29, I think they are worth the money I paied for.
 
I wouldn't consider mine junk, it still performs well and nothing broken yet after some 2 thousand rounds or so. No peening seen on the barrel lugs either. Need to change the plastic grips though, seen some cracks on it after accidentally dropping it a couple of times.
Nz85001.jpg
 
I've got a lot of guns, and a few Norinco's, good bang for the bucks, pretty good copies with some features better than the orginals. You may want to replace the grips they come with though, and after market grip for the originals fit nicely. You won't be disapointed if you pick one up.
Good Shooting
Steve
 
Norincos are what they are. Quality control can be erratic. I sold a fair number through my business. There are Norinco fireams I wouldn't touch with someone else's 10 foot pole. Some are downright embarrassing. I am very pleased with my NP29. Know other folks who are satisfied with them, whose opinions I respect. Wouldn't have bought mine otherwise.
305s and NP29s seem to be better than many Norincos. And even then, there is no absolutely no reason for the badly indexed barrels and generous headspace sometimes observed in 305s other than workers who just don't care.
 
Norinco's quality seems to be getting better all the time, Gunar reports the New Commanders are even better than the last shipment.
 
i got my norinco 1911 from armco.
so far i havnt had any problems.
the finish isnt as nice as it could be, but with the money i saved enough by buying it that i could get set up for handloading 45acp.
 
Finnish!

Yeah the finnish on the 45's leaves a little to be desired, But like any 45 owner, after you have owned it for seven seconds, the after market parts keep filling the mailbox until you are holding a completely different gun. Sort of reminds me of the old 350 engines in the Camaro's back in the 80's. Oh yeh and lets not forget the tell tale oil stains down the side of a 45 shooters pants LOL.
 
I’ve owned a number of Norinco firearms. Here is the run-down:

1911 – Nice gun and I haven’t had a problem. Surprisingly decent trigger.
CQ311 – horrible finish, metric threading, runs like a train and is as accurate as my Stag (I love my Stag)
M14S – These guns are “fixer-uppers’” so unless you like to tinker I wouldn’t get one.
Browning “take-down” copy – feeding problems mostly eleveaited with Stinger ammo.
.22 K98 “look-alike” – awesome gun and wicked fun to shoot.
SKS (older factory 26) – runs like…well… like an SKS; 4” groups at 100 yards and never stops.

Norincos are totally inconsistent with their quality. Some models are better than others.

I don’t think I’d buy a CZ copy when you can buy a CZ for under $500 from the TSE. When the choice of purchasing a Springfeild for $2000 + vs. a $400 Norinco... well it just makes sense.

There are bargains to be had in firearms, and there are some real losers that cost a lot of money. YOU DONT ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR and I hate that saying.


Jeff
 
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