Norinco or S.A.M 1911

For an out of box shooter I'll take SAM

All I've done to mine is to put in a reduced power mainspring to lessen the trigger pull a bit.

I'm half arsed looking for a government style 1911 and I'm wavering between the SAM (don't like the parked finish but it's cheap), the Remington R1 (sights are chunky) and the Colt remake of the series 70 (drool, but $$$)

The norc isn't even on my radar. There's no pride of ownership there.
 
Shroker said:
From what I read the .40 S&W SAM is a no go. =\.
How come your gunsmith hated it?
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it is machined with made up tolerances, he had to machine to frame to get certain parts to fit like a standard sti trigger (stock trigger is heavy as hell, bounces with a 2lb trigger pull), as well as machine some parts to crazy points to have them fit, even the hammer had to be slimmed down to fit in the slot. It's a longer list that that but he spent about 40 hours on it, and he can build a gun from scratch faster than that.
 
heavenIsAlie said:
it is machined with made up tolerances, he had to machine to frame to get certain parts to fit like a standard sti trigger (stock trigger is heavy as hell, bounces with a 2lb trigger pull), as well as machine some parts to crazy points to have them fit, even the hammer had to be slimmed down to fit in the slot. It's a longer list that that but he spent about 40 hours on it, and he can build a gun from scratch faster than that.
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Was that with just the .40?
I read that the SAMs have tight tolerances.
 
heavenIsAlie said:
it is machined with made up tolerances, he had to machine to frame to get certain parts to fit like a standard sti trigger (stock trigger is heavy as hell, bounces with a 2lb trigger pull), as well as machine some parts to crazy points to have them fit, even the hammer had to be slimmed down to fit in the slot. It's a longer list that that but he spent about 40 hours on it, and he can build a gun from scratch faster than that.
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I'm not sure I would use that Smith if it took him 40 hours to swap some parts....hell, I put an STI trigger in my Omega, took about 2 minutes of filing the top of the trigger down, why on earth would he machine the frame to put a $25 trigger in? Why would you let him charge you that kind of money?
Anyway, after market parts SHOULD need fitting so you have a tight and accurate gun. If something drops in, that's no good....and a waste of money replacing a part. Hell most of the parts on the SAM are quite serviceable as is, tight with positive clics on the safety's, decent enough trigger pull, slide stops work as they should ....I fit STI triggers and EGW bushings, but I do that to all my 1911's, like the curve on STI triggers and I always want a wrench tight bushing with zero play.

Riven said:
Whats wrong with the .40's. That what i want to trade my Norc .45 for.
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Nothing wrong with the .40 Omega, the issue in general with 1911's and 40 S&W is the bullet profile...the TC can cause feeding issues, I had the same problem with some 200gr TC I loaded up for my .45. Decent mags, polished ramp, usually will solve the issue. If not, then there are round nose .40 ammo available or can be loaded on your own. It's usually easy enough to sort out.
 
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Riven said:
Whats wrong with the .40's. That what i want to trade my Norc .45 for.
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I was looking for a 1911 in .40 cal and did some research on the SAM Omega 6 (40 S&W). From what I found, the SAM in this caliber can be a hit or miss (no pun intended) when it comes to reliably. HeavenIsAlie had (has) lots problems trying to get his pistol to run reliably. He is not the only one that has issues. The SAM 9's and 45's by most accounts appear to run much smoother.

Pay your money and take your chances but I'm currently looking at the STI Trojan in 40 cal.
 
Haha you all are so informative. Thanks!

If I had to go low budget, it'd be the same. Sub 1000, Para Ordnance or STI? If be looking around the 800 mark.
 
Shroker said:
I know they had a drop in quality / reliability when they moved to the US. Did that never get solved or?
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much like nea I've given them their fair chance and they disappointed so my money will continue to companies that ive come to trust so even if they have gotten their #### together I will not risk my money when there are far superior products for the money.
 
skoal said:
much like nea I've given them their fair chance and they disappointed so my money will continue to companies that ive come to trust so even if they have gotten their #### together I will not risk my money when there are far superior products for the money.
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Haha fair point!.

Guess it just comes down to my budget now when my paperwork comes in to get my 1911. Either the SAM or STI :).
 
Shroker said:
Haha you all are so informative. Thanks!

If I had to go low budget, it'd be the same. Sub 1000, Para Ordnance or STI? If be looking around the 800 mark.
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In 9mm or .45, SAM or STI Spartan. In .40 cal, STI Trojan. The Trojan is a substantial jump up in price thou.
Just to throw a wrench into the works, take a look at the Rock Island Armory Tactical II in .40 S&W. I think IRUNGUNS has one left in stock :evil:.
Don't let the cost of the pistol keep you from getting what you want. Its not the cost of the equipment, its the on-going costs of ammo, match fees, travel expenses, etc that your wife, girlfriend, significant other may object to. There are costs involved in any sport.
 
Thanks! You are right, like many other hobbies, it's always the running costs that get expensive. Wouldn't be able to travel out of town for matches just yet. I think. Who knows.

Ammo and reloading gear will easily surpass the cost of the pistol Haha.
 
Hitzy said:
I'm not sure I would use that Smith if it took him 40 hours to swap some parts....hell, I put an STI trigger in my Omega, took about 2 minutes of filing the top of the trigger down, why on earth would he machine the frame to put a $25 trigger in? Why would you let him charge you that kind of money?
Anyway, after market parts SHOULD need fitting so you have a tight and accurate gun. If something drops in, that's no good....and a waste of money replacing a part. Hell most of the parts on the SAM are quite serviceable as is, tight with positive clics on the safety's, decent enough trigger pull, slide stops work as they should ....I fit STI triggers and EGW bushings, but I do that to all my 1911's, like the curve on STI triggers and I always want a wrench tight bushing with zero play.



Nothing wrong with the .40 Omega, the issue in general with 1911's and 40 S&W is the bullet profile...the TC can cause feeding issues, I had the same problem with some 200gr TC I loaded up for my .45. Decent mags, polished ramp, usually will solve the issue. If not, then there are round nose .40 ammo available or can be loaded on your own. It's usually easy enough to sort out.
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There is a difference between fitting and machining, there is also a difference between tight tolerances (which is actually being used wrong every single time it is talked about here) and made up dimensions. My smith is very very good and knows what he is doing, even if he didn't things like a detent cut in the slide being way the hell wrong are very telling about the quality and tolerances a gun is made too. You got lucky and got one fairly close to what it should be, me and my friend got #### ones, and so did many other people on here.

The internal parts on a SAM are an unknown and most likely too soft to stand up to my usage, that is why they were replaced. I shoot 10,000-20,000 rounds a year so crappy soft parts dont work, I know the STI bits stand up because they are still working fine in my spartan so in they went.

I didnt pay him more than I would have if he had been doing the same work on a gun that was made properly (spartan). He's a good guy and when it took the gun the amount of work required was expected based on a proper gun. The SAMs as it turns out are made with dimensions picked out of the air so it took him alot longer than usual. He's a good guy so he didnt charge me actual time and said at least it was a learning experience and if anyone asks him to work on another SAM he will flat out say no way.

SAM is fine IF you plan to never fit anything aftermarket to the gun (you might get a good one, will probably get a bad one) and if you get it in 9mm or .45 because those are much easier to make work right in a 1911.
 
Thank you everyone for your insightful information and suggestions.

I like to tinker and play around with parts even if its just simple stuff so I think I will save and pony up fro the STI Spartan V in 9mm. :)
 
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