Norinco Type 97 $849 FREE SHIPPING

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Well the vzs have been reclassified as prohib. Johnone has to fight it now.

Now why would customs send a rifle to the RCMP? There is an frt# for these already. The only not ####ty reason would be to verify that they're non-restricted.
 
lol I wonder how many of us check at least three different threads every day looking for any bit of news... :) You're living history here boys (and maybe some girls).
 
You are quite correct, the 30 days has expired. We should have some sort of announcement next week.

I have a $100 scope mount, extra mags, loads of .223 ammo, a T-dot scope an NO RIFLE!

Delay's I can live with... refused shipment will definately be a real bad scene... trying to sell 10 round AR-15 mags would not be easy.

No sense getting bent out of shape, the T-97 meets the requirements for a "non-restricted" firearm, customs just has to be convinced.
:D

Delay's I can live with... refused shipment will definately be a real bad scene... trying to sell 10 round AR-15 mags would not be easy.

The Provincial CFOs have been making up their own laws and getting away with it for years.

They just say, "It isn't in the Firearms Act but we're doing it anyway, like it or lump it."

Why not Canada Customs?

The only legal ways a gun can be reclassified as prohibited is through legislation, an OIC or some bureaucrat deems it to be a variant of an already prohibited firearm.

If the T-97 is mysteriously reclassified to "prohibited" its time to start asking questions of your federal government (Public Safety & Justice Ministers).

This will be an interesting situation to keep a close watch on and what kind of rationale Canada Customs conjures up for refusing the shipments of T-97s.

There are a lot of Liberal appointees occupying senior positions in the Canadian Department of Justice.
 
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Too much fear mongering going on. Bureaucratic delays do not translate into conspiracies to keep your Type 97 from your hands.

Unless we have evidence of such, let's not fly off the charging handle. :D
 
Too much fear mongering going on. Bureaucratic delays do not translate into conspiracies to keep your Type 97 from your hands.

Unless we have evidence of such, let's not fly off the charging handle. :D

I agree, CanAm certainly had a prototype "pre-approved" before paying Norinco several hundred thousand dollars for a shipment that could possibly be "refused". Nobody is fool enuff to invest mega-dollars on the chance that "maybe" it will be refused.

This is probably nothing more than bureaucratic ass grabbing... which civil servants are quite adept at!
 
The Globe and mail as a nice cartoon...

cartoon-400.png


Some bureaucrats are going a little overboard...
 
A T-97 in the hand is worth a thousand in China

I agree, CanAm certainly had a prototype "pre-approved" before paying Norinco several hundred thousand dollars for a shipment that could possibly be "refused". Nobody is fool enuff to invest mega-dollars on the chance that "maybe" it will be refused.

This is probably nothing more than bureaucratic ass grabbing... which civil servants are quite adept at!

Don't bother that Mountie......he's thinking!

"T-97 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?????"
cartoon-400.png


CanAm certainly had a prototype "pre-approved"

I sincerely hope so.

And I hope CanAm got the tentative approval IN WRITING.

Nobody is fool enuff to invest mega-dollars on the chance that "maybe" it will be refused.

I would certainly hope not.

This is probably nothing more than bureaucratic ass grabbing... which civil servants are quite adept at!

Don't count your chickens...

I've heard rumors that some civil servant are real good at gun grabbing too.

If a career minded civvy spontaneously decides that a gun is a variant of a currently prohibited firearm you could be in for a fight.

The T-97 is definitely an "aggressive" looking firearm and the term variant has proven to be quite "elastic" in the past as regards pulling other guns into the prohibited category.

I'll stay tuned for the last episode of this CGN mini-drama
 
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Does anyone have any facts to where they are at this point? Any results from the "RCMP test".


Only CANAM would if they have been contacted by the RCMP since they submitted the sample. I am sure they will post when they have some news. Everything else is just conjecture that plants seeds of doubt and panic. An absolute field day for the "conspiracy theory" types.
 
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Only CANAM would if they have been contacted by the RCMP since they submitted the sample. I am sure they will post when they have some news. Everything else is just conjecture that plants seeds of doubt and panic. An absolute field day for the "conspiracy theory" types.

I agree. At the same time, I don't want to email them or call them. I imagine they answer enough stupid questions everyday. I'm not impatient, I just don't want it to come while I'm in the middle of moving across the country next month. If a signature is required, can I have my girlfriend pick it up for me?
 
:D



The Provincial CFOs have been making up their own laws and getting away with it for years...

...If the T-97 is mysteriously reclassified to "prohibited" its time to start asking questions of your federal government (Public Safety & Justice Ministers)...

...There are a lot of Liberal appointees occupying senior positions in the Canadian Department of Justice.

You bring up some VERY valid points, they lead me to ask the following question to everyone reading this thread;

How many of you have EVER mentioned ANYTHING firearms related to your MP? I have it easy, I live in a small riding and run into my MP regularly at Wal-Mart, but I still email once in a while or call his office.

My point is, these beurocrats didn't just spring out of the rocks, and they behave the way they do because they can. When you get right down to it, WE HAVE OURSELVES TO BLAME. I'm not trying to be a d*ck when I say that we should be contacting our MPs rather than whining on the net, I say it because it's the truth.

Our own history of sitting back saying "If (insert stupidity here) happens, I'm gonna call my MP" is the reason these things keep happening. Call your MP before stupid things happen, you should be contacting them regularly on any issue that concerns you, just to show them you're paying attention. It's unlikely anyone here would let their truck break down rather than perform a little FREE preventative maintenace, why is a little effort to maintain your freedoms too much to ask?

I'm probably wasting my time pointing it all out again, but I'll keep trying.
 
I hesitate to wade into this discussion given the reception to my previous post on bullpups, but...

I was interested in ordering a T97, but I held off because I expected that there might be legal difficulties. As a lawyer who has very carefully read the relevant legislation, regulations, and CFC interpretive bulletin on a prior Walther bullpup design (a design that was initially approved and then declared to be prohibited), I had concerns that I tried to express in a previous post. In response, the moderator was, to put it mildly, dismissive, saying that the legality of the T97 was beyond debate, and, to my surprise, he unilaterally ended the thread. So be it - this is a private, proprietary forum and I expect no right of free expression here.

I have no idea whether the concerns I attempted to identify are the reason behind the present Customs delay or apparent RCMP involvement. I hope that Canada Ammo obtained, not just an RCMP approval, but also a legal opinion before purchasing the weapons. But let me say this based on my experience as a lawyer, both in and out of government: Don't just think about what the law says, think about why it says what it says. There is a reason why "bullpup stocks" are listed as 'prohibited devices' in Regulations made under the Firearms Act - in my view it's because the government of the day decided that it does not want powerful semi-automatic rifles with otherwise legal-length barrels to be short enough to be easily concealed. What other reason could there be?

It might well be that there is a 'loophole' permitting the Tavor and T97 to slip through - ie the argument that their layout is not one incorporating a "bullpup stock" and thus a prohibited device, or perhaps because 'factory' bullpups should be considered as different in kind than 'aftermarket' bullpups, because they aren't used to shorten an existing rifle as the definition in the regs seems to anticipate. But because the loophole is inconsistent with the obvious intent of the law - to get rid of bullpup rifles and shotguns - it will be a loophole that the authorities (who are committed to giving effect to the will of the legislature and government) will always be trying to close. They will be particularly so inclined now that the T97 can be combined with the AR-pistol's 10-round magazine to frustrate not one but two restrictions intended by the regulations (I should say parenthetically that I don't think that the "AR-pistol mag exception" will endure forever either).

And I can think of nothing that would focus the attention of the authorities on such a project of prohibition more than the arrival of a container from China with hundreds of lightly-modified and very mean-looking (and inexpensive!) military weapons on the eve of the largest security event in Canadian history, the Olympic games.

Please let me be clear, before I get flamed - I'm not endorsing the idea that the T97 either is illegal or should be made illegal, I'm simply identifying what I see as an uncertainty, something that somebody considering buying a bullpup might consider and factor into their cost-benefit analysis. Certainly I would suggest that people refrain from buying peripherals such as magazines and sights before their rifle is delivered. And somebody ought to obtain, and publish, a proper legal opinion on the issue, because I am not giving one here.

But even beyond my concern for the authorities' view of their legality under the present regime, even if these rifles are released tomorrow, I would be concerned that the first time one is used in a high-profile crime, the first time a prosecutor at a press-conference holds up the T97 and says - gasp - that it isn't even a restricted firearm and thus people are free to march down the streets with it hanging on their back, provided its magazine is in their pocket rather than the rifle, then the T97 will be banned by Order-in-Council within a week, and the weapons will have to be surrendered without compensation.

I will guarantee you that if there is a police officer tasked with assessing the T97 right now, he is thinking that if somebody goes nuts with one of these, is he going to be the subject of the next Public Inquiry into police bungling? Or would he rather say "no", and let the issue be decided by a reviewing tribunal or court, which will then take the blame if there is blame to be taken?

I should add in closing that I'm not convinced that whether the T97 was previously approved by an RCMP functionary - even in writing - is of any legal consequence whatsoever. The CFC's prior about-face on the legality of the Walther bullpup seems to support that view.
 
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