Not just another "what black rifle to buy" thread. Totally different.

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pavmentsurfer

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No its not, its the same.

Im looking to move on from my XCR. Id like to stay NR and im thinking id want it to be .223/556. Just not sure what exactly and im wondering if I list my current list of considerations those with experience could let me know if they are good or bad choices (in general) and if there are any others that I should be looking at.

First, what im thinking about:
-HK SL8 with a G36 conversion and AR magwel
-Bushmaster ACR
-Tavor
-Norc Type 97 (have one on pre-order so I will own it at some point, but id like something else as well)

What I have already owned:
-XCR-L in both .223 and 7.62
-Kriss Vector
-VZ-58

What I dont want:
-AR's... I want to be different. Agree or not, its important to me.
-Swiss Arms rifles. They do nothing for me at all.
-Anything over about $3000 used.
-Anything restricted. I know my options if I want to go that route. I dont at this time.

So, any other options im missing? Anyone got any pro's/cons with my top 4 choices? I want a gun thats reliable, feeds from AR mags, is decently light (which is my biggest hesitation with the SL-8 and ACR at the moment) and I want something thats relatively simple and easy to maintain/keep clean.

Im not in love with bullpups but the Tavor seems to really fit the bill if I could get into the design. The SL8 seems to be more difficult to take apart and clean and apparently its fairly heavy. ACR sounds like a solid choice but is also heavy and is at the outer limit of my price range with an NR barrel.
 
The SL8 and acr will break your budget and the tavor is what's left. Scarce at the moment and not a lot of options for aftermarket. The type 97 is a pipe dream.

Tdc
 
What do you want to do with your rifle? It seems like if your bored of the XCR you'll just get bored of a g36 conversion or an ACR. No offense, but are you are just chasing the novelty of wanting something new? I'm kind of guilty of this myself sometimes. If you are no matter what you get, it will only remain new for so long. Perhaps you should examine what type of shooting you want to do (blasting is perfectly acceptable if that's what your looking to do) , and buy a rifle to facilitate that.
 
Well you pretty much named every option there is, so pick what one you like the most and go with it. ACR is very similar to the XCR, other then being a bit better quality maybe so I don't think that is worth your time. I've heard of people having problems with the SL8 but don't have any experience with them myself, and they aren't any more accurate then the XCR. The only one that might be worth your time I would say is the Tavor, but you should try and feel/shoot one before you buy as lots of people don't like the trigger and the feel of a bullpup.
 
I'm a very happy ACR ( from Ellwood Epps) owner & would recommend it to anyone. I'm a smaller guy & find the adjustability & ergonomics of this gun to be perfect for me. I've only had it for 2 months & have run 4000+ rounds "norinco bulk/spammed" through it without a single failure of any kind. Two seconds to whip off the barrel for cleaning, 30 seconds to put it back on... What can I say, very cool. Stock I'm pulling 4 inch groups @ 180yrds - the max range at the club, & I am never lonely as everyone wants to check it out... I bring lots of ammo so I can let my club mates try it out. I topped it off with a Spectre DR from Wolverine, Spike Tactical Havoc 37mm launcher from Questar, gg&g scout rail from Wolverine to facilitate a better mounting of launcher ,and the Vltor Versapod from Wolverine (two separate legs mounting to side rails , very stable & doesn't obstruct launcher) All the accessories make for a heavy gun but the launcher is only used for signalling / non lethal bear scare during northern Ontario hunting. At 50+ yrs old I find this to be the most fun, and coolest firearm I've ever owned, and I've owned a few... It's an obsession, what can I say. Compared to your average hunting rifle (Tikka T3, Sako, etc,) it could be called a little front heavy but that has not bothered or affected me or my aim. The multi caliber capabilities put it over the top in my opinion. All decked out it looks intimidating, and is my favorite go to in my collection.
 
The ACR is a very fine rifle, but if you already own an XCR I don't think it would be worth selling and buying one. The XCR can do everything that the ACR does including fast barrel changes, caliber conversions etc. The only thing is the ACR is a little better quality maybe. They look almost the exact same to boot. That said I wouldn't sell an XCR at a loss to turn around and buy one.
 
Bushmaster acr is to much ar-15 like.

The tavor is the way to go with your requirement. Under 3000$ , non restricted, and different from anything ar-15 like.
The type 97 could do the job but will be even harder to find than the tavor.
 
One of those new rifles from Chile that Tactical Imports is bringing in sounds like it would fit the bill. Perhaps too Sig for your tastes though.
 
As much as I am a huuuuuuge fan if my ACR, it sounds like a Tavor might be what you are looking for. It's very different from an AR platform, and it's non-restricted right from thr store. The ACR is great, but you either have to buy new for $2700 and spend $800-1000 for a non-restricted barrel, or wait and hope that a non-restricted shows up on the EE (pretty rare).

As I said, I love my ACR but it's already front heavy with the 16" barrel. Add another 2.5" and it's worse. Personally, I only shoot at the range so I'm putting a 12.5" barrel on it to balance it nicely.
 
The ACR is neat, I handled one in Target Sports and liked it. It will be close to $4000 with a NR barrel, and you may not find it to be worth 2 XCR's.

The only other one I'd consider replacing an XCR with is the Tavor.
 
depending what you are using the rifles for, SL8 and ACR really not going to give you that much different of a shooting experience than the XCR and Bullpups are different only in term of how you hold the rifle, perhaps look at what you want to do with the rifle is a better question.
 
Swiss, ive played with all of what is mentioned and I think the Swiss is the nicest, most trouble free, user friendly, end all non restricted 'black gun'. Only con I see is mags. But there is the NEA lower or just buy once, cry once a bunch of them.
 
Personally I don't like the Swiss, I hate plastic feeling guns and when I am spending 3000$ on a gun I want it to feel high quality and not plastic. I realize they are a really good quality gun and reliable etc. Another huge problem right now is the reclassification. I would stay away from them until that is cleared, and you guys can say anything you want but no way I would spend 3k on a gun under review.
 
mattf87 said:
Personally I don't like the Swiss, I hate plastic feeling guns and when I am spending 3000$ on a gun I want it to feel high quality and not plastic. I realize they are a really good quality gun and reliable etc. Another huge problem right now is the reclassification. I would stay away from them until that is cleared, and you guys can say anything you want but no way I would spend 3k on a gun under review.
Click to expand...

If you hate plastic feeling rifles you may be looking for the wrong gun...all he rifles mentioned are adorned or made primarily of composites (obviously with the exception of the barrel and certain bits)... That leaves you the AK style Valmet and VZ858 s and the Ruger Mini 14... :)
 
Well I'm not buying any of these rifles haha. The XCR is all metal, so is the ACR. I could accept a Tavor in plastic because you have no choice, for a normal semi rifle there is plenty of metal guns. I would like a Swiss with a aftermarket rail, but then there is still the reclassification issue.
 
300Spartans said:
M-m-m-mini-14 (brobeeized if possible)
Click to expand...

I was gonna mention this until he said he really wants the rifle to take AR mags. Other than the mag thing, the mini-14 fits the bill pretty well. And at 1K$ there's lots of money left over for mags, scope, ammo and such. Also, if you want the "assualt rifle" type look then the Sparta stock from Archangel makes it look a lot like an ACR and comes in at 250ish$.
 
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