Not your typical bear defense thread
- Thread starter canuckjgc
- Start date
I'm saying that regardless of what the regs are, the best bet for a newb is a shotgun. When you factor regs into the equation you have decisions to make.
I personally don't go where I can't carry.
But YEAH I know people who carry in Banff.
I personally don't go where I can't carry.
But YEAH I know people who carry in Banff.
BUT please explain why Bowron is listed in Schedule B of the Parks Act Reg that lists ALL parks in which firearms are permitted during hunting season with a license. This is the law of the land in BC for firearms in parks.
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Park/180_90_03.htm#ScheduleB
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Park/180_90_03.htm#ScheduleB
No need to line up rear and front sights. Bead only. Slightly more forgiving with point of aim. You don't use slugs but buckshot. Being slightly off in a panic still gives a good chance of getting a pellet on target that will at least discourage the bear. Being on target means a bear with multiple hits and likely broken bones that will break it down and likely cause it to stop its charge.
Remember: One good hit with a .22 is better than five misses with a .50 BMG
Just be sure to aim low. By the time you pull the trigger, a charging bear will have moved higher in your point of aim than it was when you decided to pull the trigger.
I don't know why we are wasting our time on you. You apparently did not even read the site BOO gave you to clarify your confusion. So hear it is. I think it is fairly plain--NO FIREARMS
6. NO FIREARMS
Firearms and Crossbows are prohibited in Bowron Lake Provincial Park. Pepper Spray is permitted ONLY if it is
clearly labelled by the manufacturer: "For Bear Use Only."
7. NO DOGS
Dogs and other pets are not permitted on the Canoe Circuit. This rule is strictly enforced for your
own safety, as pets and bears are not compatible. Pets are permitted in the vehicle access campground
and park entrance area and must be on a leash at all times.
My brother, you are quoting a WEBSITE and I am quoting the LAW (please read the Parks Act Reg Schedule B for God's Sake). I'll even quote it for you:
Possession of firearms, bows and crossbows
28 No person shall possess a firearm, bow or crossbow in a park, conservancy or recreation area except
(a) a firearm, bow or crossbow that is carried in a vehicle,
(b) during an open season specified under the Wildlife Act in those parks, conservancies and recreation areas listed in Schedule B,
(c) in Columbia Lake Park between September 10 and June 15 of the following year, or
(d) as authorized by a park officer.
Now, you flip to Schedule B and Bowron is listed as a "recent addition" to the exceptions: http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Park/180_90_03.htm#ScheduleB
How clear is that?
I really don't care what the park rangers post on their website. Until someone can show me that firearms are prohibited from Bowron under LAW, please stop telling me I can't.
This is no "waste of time" -- it is a major backwoods trip into serious bear country with 2 kids and a small adult female. Will be the time of our life and I intend to keep it that way by making an intelligent choice in a firearm.
Possession of firearms, bows and crossbows
28 No person shall possess a firearm, bow or crossbow in a park, conservancy or recreation area except
(a) a firearm, bow or crossbow that is carried in a vehicle,
(b) during an open season specified under the Wildlife Act in those parks, conservancies and recreation areas listed in Schedule B,
(c) in Columbia Lake Park between September 10 and June 15 of the following year, or
(d) as authorized by a park officer.
Now, you flip to Schedule B and Bowron is listed as a "recent addition" to the exceptions: http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Park/180_90_03.htm#ScheduleB
How clear is that?
I really don't care what the park rangers post on their website. Until someone can show me that firearms are prohibited from Bowron under LAW, please stop telling me I can't.
This is no "waste of time" -- it is a major backwoods trip into serious bear country with 2 kids and a small adult female. Will be the time of our life and I intend to keep it that way by making an intelligent choice in a firearm.
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Those that won't listen are good humour...
I'd suggest that instead of arguing that you listen to what is being said to you because if you don't it is definately going to cost you.
H4831 I tried getting up to the cabin this fall but ran out of time had to get back home and get involved in the election so it will have to wait until the spring now even had a metal detector with me.
It's obvious some of you need an education in how to determine what your rights are with regard to carrying firearms in BC parks. So here it is...
The use of firearms in parks is governed by the Parks Act and The Parks and Recreation Area Regulation.
The Regulation prohibits all firearms in BC parks EXCEPT for those parks listed in Schedule B during hunting season. The parks in Schedule B change from time to time. If you read Schedule B you'll clearly see Bowron listed:
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Park/180_90_03.htm#ScheduleB
Firearms are NOT regulated by what a park posts on its website! In fact, look at any BC Park website and they all say "firearms prohibited" as a blanket statement-- they don't advertise the fact that you can bring firearms during hunting season (and there is nothing that requires a BC park website to inform you of your rights!)
If you can't read it and can't respond to it, then please stop telling me I can't carry a firearm in Bowron during hunting season.
The ignorance of some of you and the inability to admit you were wrong is pretty astonishing.
The use of firearms in parks is governed by the Parks Act and The Parks and Recreation Area Regulation.
The Regulation prohibits all firearms in BC parks EXCEPT for those parks listed in Schedule B during hunting season. The parks in Schedule B change from time to time. If you read Schedule B you'll clearly see Bowron listed:
http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Park/180_90_03.htm#ScheduleB
Firearms are NOT regulated by what a park posts on its website! In fact, look at any BC Park website and they all say "firearms prohibited" as a blanket statement-- they don't advertise the fact that you can bring firearms during hunting season (and there is nothing that requires a BC park website to inform you of your rights!)
If you can't read it and can't respond to it, then please stop telling me I can't carry a firearm in Bowron during hunting season.
The ignorance of some of you and the inability to admit you were wrong is pretty astonishing.
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That's why my wife was taught to use the double coach gun. If the bear isn't stopped by the second shot, a third, fourth and fifth will not be used anyway.
canu.....I'd suggest you read the following report from Alaska regarding the effenciency of bear spray. I'd suggest that a person with no firearm experience is much better off with a can of bear spray than a gun they are not familiar or comfortable with. In fact, in the large majority of bear encounters, spray is most likely the best choice. Beware of all the bravado on here....there are a few members with real bear experience but not too many and most are just fooling themselves that they are safe from bears just because they are paking heat! A poorly hit bear can inflict a lot of damage on you.
Get your wife a can of bear spray and enjoy the trip......
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/RegionalNews/dh-bear spray.pdf
Get your wife a can of bear spray and enjoy the trip......
http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/RegionalNews/dh-bear spray.pdf
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
If we are going to focus the discussion on defensive firearms, the shooting ability of anyone who might use the gun must be considered. With no experience, I think the gun might just get you in trouble, but its up to you. I would prefer to know that anyone who carries a firearm for protection in the wilderness has killed a large animal, or at the very least has seen a large animal killed. Without that experience you have no basis for judgment. Add to this a moving target, and fear on the part of the shooter, and you have a disaster waiting to happen.
Limited experience is better than no experience, but one would hope that the fundamentals of basic marksmanship have been achieved. The correct answer of action type for the individual with little experience is the semi-auto. The logic is not one of firepower but that machines are very good at repetitive actions. There is no chance of short stroking the action under the stress. A side advantage is that the recoil impulse is reduced with a gas-operated action so a powerful cartridge can be chosen. A 12 gauge loaded with 23/4" slugs, particularly the soft recoiling Brennekes, is manageable by most folks in a semi auto configuration, even a small women. If not a shotgun than a rifle in the .30/06 class loaded with 180 gr bullets should be the minimum consideration.
When to shoot is always a question, and sometimes it is a question not easily answered. Clearly the bear cannot injure you if it cannot touch you, but killing a bear 50 yards away doesn't give it much of a chance. Conversely if you wait until the bear is just 5 yards away, you might not be able to stop it in time. This is where experience and knowledge of behavior comes into play.
If a bear approaches you I would resist the temptation to fire a warning shot at it. In my experience bears do not react to live fire, although they may turn and grudgingly wander off, but you can't count on that. So the results aren't guaranteed, and the rounds in your magazine are reduced. A better choice would be a starter pistol loaded with cracker shells. If the bear hasn't been desensitized to cracker shells they are pretty effective for getting the bear to move along. You can get 12 gauge cracker shells and rubber baton rounds as well, but I don't like to see scare cartridges being used in a gun that will fire live ammo due to the chance of a barrel obstruction. If you chose a semi auto shotgun, single loading these low-pressure rounds under stress would be tricky. It would not be out of the realm of possibility that a slug from the magazine could end up in the chamber when you expected a rubber bullet.
Practice with the firearm is key, and should be done well in advance of your trip. A 5-gallon plastic oil pail tied to the back of a quad or vehicle makes an interesting marksmanship target. You will discover that shooting at a target that is moving rapidly towards you is a difficult problem to solve.
Limited experience is better than no experience, but one would hope that the fundamentals of basic marksmanship have been achieved. The correct answer of action type for the individual with little experience is the semi-auto. The logic is not one of firepower but that machines are very good at repetitive actions. There is no chance of short stroking the action under the stress. A side advantage is that the recoil impulse is reduced with a gas-operated action so a powerful cartridge can be chosen. A 12 gauge loaded with 23/4" slugs, particularly the soft recoiling Brennekes, is manageable by most folks in a semi auto configuration, even a small women. If not a shotgun than a rifle in the .30/06 class loaded with 180 gr bullets should be the minimum consideration.
When to shoot is always a question, and sometimes it is a question not easily answered. Clearly the bear cannot injure you if it cannot touch you, but killing a bear 50 yards away doesn't give it much of a chance. Conversely if you wait until the bear is just 5 yards away, you might not be able to stop it in time. This is where experience and knowledge of behavior comes into play.
If a bear approaches you I would resist the temptation to fire a warning shot at it. In my experience bears do not react to live fire, although they may turn and grudgingly wander off, but you can't count on that. So the results aren't guaranteed, and the rounds in your magazine are reduced. A better choice would be a starter pistol loaded with cracker shells. If the bear hasn't been desensitized to cracker shells they are pretty effective for getting the bear to move along. You can get 12 gauge cracker shells and rubber baton rounds as well, but I don't like to see scare cartridges being used in a gun that will fire live ammo due to the chance of a barrel obstruction. If you chose a semi auto shotgun, single loading these low-pressure rounds under stress would be tricky. It would not be out of the realm of possibility that a slug from the magazine could end up in the chamber when you expected a rubber bullet.
Practice with the firearm is key, and should be done well in advance of your trip. A 5-gallon plastic oil pail tied to the back of a quad or vehicle makes an interesting marksmanship target. You will discover that shooting at a target that is moving rapidly towards you is a difficult problem to solve.
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Like Boomer said.
Bears are not difficult to kill, for hunters. You are asking about stopping a bear. A different issue. Made worse by the adrenaline factor and inexperience.
A 12 gu slug has the penetration to get through the fat and muscles of a bear. Given your situation, I would suggest a semi-auto shotgun because it softens felt recoil.
I have a Remington 740 30-06 with a short barrel and a red plastic front sight that I would take, if i was in your shoes. Don't own a semi shotgun.
Bears are not difficult to kill, for hunters. You are asking about stopping a bear. A different issue. Made worse by the adrenaline factor and inexperience.
A 12 gu slug has the penetration to get through the fat and muscles of a bear. Given your situation, I would suggest a semi-auto shotgun because it softens felt recoil.
I have a Remington 740 30-06 with a short barrel and a red plastic front sight that I would take, if i was in your shoes. Don't own a semi shotgun.
Hello Camp Cook,
Maybe better luck next spring.
In the section on parks that has our friend all worked up, the word "addition," is behind Bowron Park. What this means is that in the area of the addition to the original park, it is permitted to have firearms during hunting season.
But like I pointed out, in the original Bowron Lake Park, which of course, includes the canoe route, all firearms have been prohibited for more than fifty years. Peiod.
But of course, why should I know anything about it? Fifty five years ago I flew fishermen into the principal lakes on the now canoe route, but that doesn't mean anything about what I may know about the park, does it? About that time hardy hunters would use boats and motors to hunt moose, caribou, and maybe grizzly, on what is now known as the canoe route. Then, it was given high priority park status, with lots of restrictions, even including restrictions on flying to it, and prohibited all firearms in the park.
The Quesnel Rod and Gun Club had a cabin on the extreme N/W portion of Isaac lake, a major waterway in the now canoe route, with a boat at it, which they were allowed to keep after park status was established. It was a long hike to get to the cabin, so a deal was struck with them whereby we would fly provisions to the cabin for them, in return for the use of their cabin and boat.
But what the heck, why would I (or Johnn Peterson on these threads,) know anything about Bowron Lake Park?
Maybe better luck next spring.
In the section on parks that has our friend all worked up, the word "addition," is behind Bowron Park. What this means is that in the area of the addition to the original park, it is permitted to have firearms during hunting season.
But like I pointed out, in the original Bowron Lake Park, which of course, includes the canoe route, all firearms have been prohibited for more than fifty years. Peiod.
But of course, why should I know anything about it? Fifty five years ago I flew fishermen into the principal lakes on the now canoe route, but that doesn't mean anything about what I may know about the park, does it? About that time hardy hunters would use boats and motors to hunt moose, caribou, and maybe grizzly, on what is now known as the canoe route. Then, it was given high priority park status, with lots of restrictions, even including restrictions on flying to it, and prohibited all firearms in the park.
The Quesnel Rod and Gun Club had a cabin on the extreme N/W portion of Isaac lake, a major waterway in the now canoe route, with a boat at it, which they were allowed to keep after park status was established. It was a long hike to get to the cabin, so a deal was struck with them whereby we would fly provisions to the cabin for them, in return for the use of their cabin and boat.
But what the heck, why would I (or Johnn Peterson on these threads,) know anything about Bowron Lake Park?
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