Weapontech
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- On my way to Hell in a handbasket
Sweet........
I'm going to get that laminated on a card and have it in my wallet; just in case!
nothing worse than labeling a hunter as a murderer..
- Thread starter Brentn
- Start date
I'm going to get that laminated on a card and have it in my wallet; just in case!
Even as the green herb have I given you all things?
Is anyone else taking that the same way I am?
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
LIke others have stated, these anti-hunting nuts have too much emotion and a lack of basic understanding of biological sciences (natural selection etc..) They already know everything they will ever want to know and whatever you say will not change their minds. The only people you will ever sway are the people that are sensible or still a little apprehensive about hunting.
When dealing with the antis, it's easy to win the argument and make them look foolish, but you will never change their mindset. Now on the other hand try educating a 7-10 yr. old girl. My daughter now has a clear understanding of the necessity of hunting ecologically although it saddens her. She "gets it" but still prefers not to see the game in an pre-butchered state.
On thing I haven't seen much of on this topic is the ecological necessity and environmental stewardship intrinsic with responsible and legal hunting practices. Financially a huge percentage of habitat conservation is supported primarily through hunting fees and licensing, Wildlife Federations, organized, and populated with hunters and other financial contributions from the hunting community. Organizations such as Ducks Unlimited get a lot of their finances through the hunting community. Ask them when was the last time they donated $120 to Ducks Unlimited, or any other wildlife organization? My wife doesn't like Game birds, and thus I don't hunt water fowl, but every year I will buy my migratory game bird stamp too.
Point out the huge percentage of natural habitat (well over 50% of the planet's land mass) that has been lost to agriculture, being a vegan doesn't save the world. Even species like deer that can thrive in human engineered agricultural land can become ill and face diseases like CWD due to over population because they do not exist in a healthy ecosystem. Where sufficient natural predators no longer exist (be it due to de-predation, or lack of scarcity creating population explosions) human hunters are an ecological necessity. Even gopher shooting is environmentally ethical to help control rodent populations and reduce disease without having to use poisons.
Any sane, responsible person who is truly and honestly concerned with the planet we live on, preserving healthy ecosystems, for healthy wildlife to exist for future generations has to support hunting, whether they choose to participate in the sport themselves or not. And those who do not should thank those of us who do.
GD
On thing I haven't seen much of on this topic is the ecological necessity and environmental stewardship intrinsic with responsible and legal hunting practices. Financially a huge percentage of habitat conservation is supported primarily through hunting fees and licensing, Wildlife Federations, organized, and populated with hunters and other financial contributions from the hunting community. Organizations such as Ducks Unlimited get a lot of their finances through the hunting community. Ask them when was the last time they donated $120 to Ducks Unlimited, or any other wildlife organization? My wife doesn't like Game birds, and thus I don't hunt water fowl, but every year I will buy my migratory game bird stamp too.
Point out the huge percentage of natural habitat (well over 50% of the planet's land mass) that has been lost to agriculture, being a vegan doesn't save the world. Even species like deer that can thrive in human engineered agricultural land can become ill and face diseases like CWD due to over population because they do not exist in a healthy ecosystem. Where sufficient natural predators no longer exist (be it due to de-predation, or lack of scarcity creating population explosions) human hunters are an ecological necessity. Even gopher shooting is environmentally ethical to help control rodent populations and reduce disease without having to use poisons.
Any sane, responsible person who is truly and honestly concerned with the planet we live on, preserving healthy ecosystems, for healthy wildlife to exist for future generations has to support hunting, whether they choose to participate in the sport themselves or not. And those who do not should thank those of us who do.
GD
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Gary_D makes a very good point. High density agriculture is making a mess of our planet and it's something that even many vegans and vegetarians do not acknowledge. To support our massive cities we've been rapidly eroding our food production capabilities and that's just vegetable growth not meat farming.
I've been reading "Collapse" by Jared Diamond and just the first section on Montana is really enlightening. You would think someplace like Montana would be the last affected place on this planet but just go read that section in "Collapse".
Just a satellite view of Southern Ontario in Google Maps shows how much of our arable land is given over to high density farming just to support the GTA area. The toxicity from the fertilizer runoff alone is probably doing serious damage to our fresh water supplies and affecting all sorts of different species in our "backyards".
All this blah blah aside I guess i'm saying maybe we should attack the anti's positions. The anti who safely believes that shopping at Loblaw's is doing the least harm to the countryside is in for a rude awakening.
High density farming at the minimum does:
- fertilizer runoff into water supply kills all sorts of fish and animals
- leeches nutrients from the soils and even old practices of letting fields lie fallow are struggling to maintain optimum growing conditions
- eliminates natural environments for wildlife
I've been reading "Collapse" by Jared Diamond and just the first section on Montana is really enlightening. You would think someplace like Montana would be the last affected place on this planet but just go read that section in "Collapse".
Just a satellite view of Southern Ontario in Google Maps shows how much of our arable land is given over to high density farming just to support the GTA area. The toxicity from the fertilizer runoff alone is probably doing serious damage to our fresh water supplies and affecting all sorts of different species in our "backyards".
All this blah blah aside I guess i'm saying maybe we should attack the anti's positions. The anti who safely believes that shopping at Loblaw's is doing the least harm to the countryside is in for a rude awakening.
High density farming at the minimum does:
- fertilizer runoff into water supply kills all sorts of fish and animals
- leeches nutrients from the soils and even old practices of letting fields lie fallow are struggling to maintain optimum growing conditions
- eliminates natural environments for wildlife
it's a good first step, but is not the end all be all either! They need to know that We hunters are the best friend the animals have, since we help to ensure that the species survives through "cull" hunting and by cull hunting I mean we take the old, in general and also even the populations out with doe hunts and buck hunts etc..... we keep animals like deer , elk , etc... in balance and actually have improved the habitat in this way as well as the general herd health of the species for example the whitetail deer was almost wiped out. Hunters brought them back and today there are more whitetail deer , healthy whitetail deer , than there were when white man first landed in NA . Texas alone has over 1 million whitetail deer. All over the world , animals managed by hunters and orgs like SCI are making resounding comebacks. This is the message we need to give the anti's as well . Ted nugent said it best , we kept the whitetail deer, there are millions , they got the condor , there are still only a few , whose method is working ? Add this to the farming approach post above and we will have ignition ! IMHO
I made the mistake of telling my driving instructor that I hunt, he started #####ing about how morally wrong the sport was and I shouldn't be taking part in it if I already have a freezer full of food... pfff, i dind't even bother getting into a debate, these people are like christians.
I once mentioned to my coworkers that I hunt and target shoot... i'm now labeled as a serial killer...
note to self, keep my main hobby to myself
I once mentioned to my coworkers that I hunt and target shoot... i'm now labeled as a serial killer...
note to self, keep my main hobby to myself
On the rare occasions when someone questions my reasons for hunting I don't get angry or defensive. I simply explain to them that like most people I eat meat and have no desire to change that. I tell them that one of reasons I hunt is to remind myself that anytime I take a bite of a cheeseburger or steak that an animal has paid the ultimate price for me to do that, whether I hunted the animal or bought the meat at the same store they do. That I go to the bush and hunt an animal, occasionally looking it in the eye before cleanly killing it. Gutting it, skinning it, and taking it to the butcher isn't much fun but it gives me a respect and appreciation of the animal that is turned into steaks and burgers. Then I'll suggest that anyone who eats meat should hunt at least once in a while to gain the same appreciation and respect I have for the animals we eat. Usually they have seen themselves in what I've said and quietly ask questions about hunting. Comparing hunters with animals that kill their food never works. Their argument is that we are more highly evolved and they are right. Anyone who eats meat should know the costs to the animal. This argument doesn't always work, my wife was an anti hunter. She stopped eating meat for more than a year when I explained it to her this way. She has started to eat meat again, but she doesn't rag on me about killing anymore.
Whenever someone asks me how I can kill tose beautiful animals, I calmly explain it...
"first I line the crosshairs up right between their big brown eyes, gently squeeze the trigger, and turn their sweet little head inside out. That's the easy part, once it's dead, then the real work begins, being up to my elbows or armpits blood and guts, ..."
They usually walk away at that point with a slightly pale look. works everytime
"first I line the crosshairs up right between their big brown eyes, gently squeeze the trigger, and turn their sweet little head inside out. That's the easy part, once it's dead, then the real work begins, being up to my elbows or armpits blood and guts, ..."
They usually walk away at that point with a slightly pale look. works everytime
There are a series of videos on Youtube called The Official Meatrix, which might be useful to show to people to counter the idea that the food from the grocery stores is somehow more humane than hunting. They unfortunately aren't an explicit support of hunting, but they're definitely useful if you want to get people to question where their food comes from.
Dunno if hotlinking Youtube is allowed, so here's the link to the first: www. youtube.com/watch?v=rEkc70ztOrc&feature=related
I haven't had time to read the whole thread but I'd like to say in response to the original post that I am a farmer and most of us don't torture animals or raise them in inhumane conditions, besides being awful you should realize that an unhappy animal will never thrive the way it should to get the best productivity. I think this is sort of the same in how hunters are misunderstood and so are farmers. Otherwise I agree with what you've said.
- Location
- In the Land of Lies Being Exposed!
"Have you ever seen animals that have starved to death, or die of diesese because they are weak from lack of food?"
Hunting is part of population control, since there are not enough natural predators, hunting is more humane.
Hunters are also out in the bush when it is not hunting season, cleaning up packbacker messes, helping clean up polution and alot of them work in conjuction with the Ministry of Natural Resources.
Hunters are not the Disney version of mow the forest down with bullets.
Those points always work.
Hunting is part of population control, since there are not enough natural predators, hunting is more humane.
Hunters are also out in the bush when it is not hunting season, cleaning up packbacker messes, helping clean up polution and alot of them work in conjuction with the Ministry of Natural Resources.
Hunters are not the Disney version of mow the forest down with bullets.
Those points always work.
I know a lot of people who seem to be anti hunting,The most ironic was a elderly lady who said it was wrong to shoot game for food when one could buy their food, but she wanted fish and wildlife to cull the deer that were wrecking her garden. 
- Location
- In the Land of Lies Being Exposed!
