Notice to S&W M&P 15-22 Rifle Owners

if anyone doesnt want their mags, ill buy them if the price is right, then experiment with pinning them to 10 rounds and ill post my results
 
Personally I don't buy into this argument that getting Black Dog to make them will solve anything, the whole thing is subjective and if someone in the US starts advertising them as working in the pistol version and RCMP decides they're "designed for use with" the pistol, we're back to square one. Surely the current drum version works in the pistol?

I'm more interested to know where I can get the ten-round bespoke mags from frankly.
 
This is still b*llsh*t. I'll be writing a letter to my MP about this. I am not happy over my becoming a "criminal" over a magazine for a f*cking .22 cal rifle that barely qualifies as a firearm. This was a legal product when I bought it and now, by the stroke of a pen, it's not. This is not how I am going to be treated as a Canadian citizen, criminalized on paper whenever the powers that be decide I should be.
 
I fired off this letter to my MP:



I am writing to you to expose yet another hurtful and deceitful act that has been perpetrated against law abiding Canadian gun owners in recent weeks. You see, last year Smith and Wesson began to market their new .22 caliber rimfire rifle in Canada. The Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22. The RCMP, in an unprecedented move, classified the small, lightweight, .22 caliber rifles as Restricted and relegated a rifle that was meant to be used for shooting pop cans - to the "Range Only" class of rifles.

What I find most distressing, is that this rifle was obviously classified as restricted based purely on its looks. It is designed to look like an Armalite Rifle or AR style of rifle. Looks though, are all that is shared with any other type of rifle, as the Smith and Wesson M&P15-22 is constructed entirely of polymer. That's right, it's plastic.

Many of Canada’s 1 million gun owners looked past the restrictions placed on this rifle and purchased it anyway.

The Smith and Wesson M&P15-22 is shipped from the factory with the rifle, a cable lock and one 25 round magazine, which is the reason I am writing to you today. You see, now due to the stroke of a pen at the RCMP's Firearms Center, many law abiding Canadians are now criminals.

Recently the RCMP has ruled that because Smith and Wesson has introduced a new pistol on to the market that uses the same 25 round magazine that their rifle uses, the 25 round magazine that was perfectly legal a week ago, is now Prohibited! A pistol magazine can only hold 10 rounds, so even though the Smith and Wesson pistol in question isn't even being sold in Canada yet, the magazine purchased legally with the rifle is now illegal. We are law abiding people, we have great respect and love for the laws of our country, but now, once again, our once legal property is contraband. There are no capacity limits on rimfire magazines according to the criminal code, but there are now, only no legislation was ever passed. The RCMP has decided to unilaterally to make this so.

We Canadian gun owners were told that the legislation known as Bill C-68 would not make criminals out of law abiding people, yet here I am writing to you to tell you that that very thing is happening right now. I know that the law abiding gun owners who have purchased this rifle will do everything in their power to legally modify the magazine to only hold 10 rounds, as per the RCMP's edict, or else they will surrender their once legal property over to the RCMP for destruction, without compensation.

I hope that I have opened your eyes a little bit to the situation that we are in here. We are constantly criminalized and forced to submit to bizarre and unreasonable firearms laws in Canada and this is only the most recent example. I implore you to share this story around Parliament, as we; the law abiding Canadian gun owners are demanding that the laws of Canada be changed so that no more of us are made criminals overnight by the stroke of a pen. We ask fervently for Bill C-68 to be repealed in its entirety and no new firearms laws to be written that will restrict or criminalize Canadian citizens. Instead we demand that firearms legislation only be created to control access to firearms by those who are criminals.

The people of this nation will not be made into criminals by those they have asked to protect them.

Thank you for your time.




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I suggest you guys do the same.
 
Questar said:
We spoke to Black Dog about this earlier today and they were surprisingly receptive to the idea. We have asked them to make a 26 round magazine specifically for the M&P 15-22 Rifle and they are willing... but this is not a fast process.

Could be looking at 3 to 6 months before they are in our hands (requires tooling, prototypes, testing, and final production). Having done the tower kit development already for the drum does make some difference and cuts down some of the work but it still takes time to do what will be needed.

Mark
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even if black dog makes a mag for this rifle in any more than 10rounds it would not be helping the issue, considering that the m&p15-22p is nothing more than the m&p15-22 rifle with a shortened barrel and no stock. if you go to the smith and wesson web site and look at the pistol you will see it is the exact same reciever and action.
 
I'm waiting to here the "they showed up at my door thanks to the registry and asked to see my S&W rifle, and the asked to see the magazine that came with it". That will be the first part then there will be several different parts after that like "when I gave them the magazine (as is) they said I was in possession of a prohibited device and seized all my firearms and ammunition because of it", or "when I gave them the magazine which I had already pinned to 10 rounds they said that it was not acceptable, I argued that it was and they said they will let the courts decide and seized all my firearms and ammunition until the outcome of the trial", or "I said I no longer have the magazine as I have been informed it was prohibited, and they said they didn't believe me so they tore apart my whole house looking for the magazine".

I really can't see a win here by sitting and waiting for the letter to come, which may in fact be PRECEDED by the knock at the door, or the call saying they are on the way.
 
bigphilly said:
even if black dog makes a mag for this rifle in any more than 10rounds it would not be helping the issue, considering that the m&p15-22p is nothing more than the m&p15-22 rifle with a shortened barrel and no stock. if you go to the smith and wesson web site and look at the pistol you will see it is the exact same reciever and action.
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If you look closely at your post and try to understand it, you're making the argument that the LAR 10rd mags shouldn't be able to be used in a regular AR.

Good job.


I can't imagine the frustration Questar must be feeling by trying to explain over and over, how this works.
 
way to be behind the curve again RCMP this is like that bloody type 97 fiasco. What a crock of s*** calling an object something else, it's like calling a kitchen knife a dagger and suddenly it's scary
 
Tuco Pike said:
I'm waiting to here the "they showed up at my door thanks to the registry and asked to see my S&W rifle, and the asked to see the magazine that came with it". That will be the first part then there will be several different parts after that like "when I gave them the magazine (as is) they said I was in possession of a prohibited device and seized all my firearms and ammunition because of it", or "when I gave them the magazine which I had already pinned to 10 rounds they said that it was not acceptable, I argued that it was and they said they will let the courts decide and seized all my firearms and ammunition until the outcome of the trial", or "I said I no longer have the magazine as I have been informed it was prohibited, and they said they didn't believe me so they tore apart my whole house looking for the magazine".

I really can't see a win here by sitting and waiting for the letter to come, which may in fact be PRECEDED by the knock at the door, or the call saying they are on the way.
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Good then, I'll go to court....... I'm a tradesman it will not affect my work (other than a few days off)..... let them explain to a judge why I am there.....
 
wicked_police said:
If you look closely at your post and try to understand it, you're making the argument that the LAR 10rd mags shouldn't be able to be used in a regular AR.

Good job.


I can't imagine the frustration Questar must be feeling by trying to explain over and over, how this works.
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You're right... the frustration is maddening. I just don't see why it's so hard for some people to understand the basic concept here...

  • A magazine's capacity is determined by what firearm the magazine was designed and manufactured for (NOT the firearm it fits or is used in);
  • S&W themselves advertised and ADMITTED that they designed and manufactured the magazine in question FOR THE PISTOL as well as the rifle and by doing that they confirmed it was a Handgun Magazine under Canadian law.
  • The RCMP actually tried hard NOT to declare these Prohibited Devices... but thanks to S&W's own actions the RCMP had no choice but to follow the law as written. Their decision is consistent with previous rulings and follows the law as written.

There is no reason that a manufacturer can't make a new magazine, designed and manufactured for the rifle. Even if it fits other guns that won't matter when it comes to classifying the magazine for capacity... if it's manufactured for the rifle then it's a rim-fire rifle magazine and under Canadian law is NOT limited in capacity.

Mark
 
But the catch is that it has to be firmly advertised as only for the rifle and RCMP seems to take anything they want in determining what "designed for" means.

I've got to say quite honestly I couldn't care less if I can only get ten round magazines, I only loaded mine with ten rounds usually anyway as they're quite fiddly to load. Getting replacement magazines is rather low on my list of priorities, I'm more interested in not breaking the law.

So anyway unless someone has got a better idea I'm going to the cop shop and turning them in, because I know most dealers only have authority for a very small number of prohibited devices.
 
cybershooters said:
But the catch is that it has to be firmly advertised as only for the rifle and RCMP seems to take anything they want in determining what "designed for" means.
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Not true.... there is no requirement that they be advertised at all. It more the other way around... if it's advertisted then it can't be advertised as a pistol magazine otherwise it would be classified as a pistol magazine.

Even advertising that they fit other guns doesn't make them a handgun magazine in and of itself.

Let's stick to facts rather than just opinions, maybe's and what if's.

Mark
 
so if black dog stamped on the side of thier 25 round magazine or S&W stampedon the side of one of thier magazines "FOR RIFLE USE ONLY", and made the mag with a different colour for easy identification

would that fix the problem
 
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