O'Connor on the .30-06 and .270
- Thread starter philthygeezer
- Start date
Ditto
When those guys were active / alive, bullet technology and composition was still infantile. To argue the differences between the .270 vs 30-06 vs 7mm today is just an exercise in futility - equating to nothing more than ballitic masterbation over 100 fps, 200 ft/lbs, and 31 thou of an inch.
Cause in point: whats a "silvertip"? is that anything like a Barnes triple shock.....
When those guys were active / alive, bullet technology and composition was still infantile. To argue the differences between the .270 vs 30-06 vs 7mm today is just an exercise in futility - equating to nothing more than ballitic masterbation over 100 fps, 200 ft/lbs, and 31 thou of an inch.
Cause in point: whats a "silvertip"? is that anything like a Barnes triple shock.....
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
For the most part, I think the bullets were tipped with aluminium, sort of a pre plastic/nylon era tip material Winchester used. The first I used were in 300WM ammo years ago. I lucked into a couple boxes of 200gr bullets for my 348WCF and I understand Winchester is now doing production runs of 348 ammo again, using that same bullet.
Here is the letter.
WOW. Old Jack should have been a Dr. with that hand writing. No writers these days would be that personal.
Here is the letter.
Many thanks. Definitely a treasure!
Fred Barnes restarted his bullet making business after WW2. His first bullets were made with copper tubing for jackets. He used the ordinary copper tubing you could buy at the hardware store, which has much heavier walls than any bullet jacket. The core was lead, adhering to the copper walls. He had them swagged with a small tip of lead exposed at the tip.
My brother bought some of these shortly after WW2, in 30 calibre, 150 and 200 grain. These were tremendous bullets, they just mushroomed on the front, then didn't break up. I shot quite a few of them. Even the 150 grain in the 30-06 made one shot kills on moose, about as well, or better, than any bullet I ever used on moose.
The 200 grain were big game poison. I imagine their performance was very little different than the best of Barnes bullets today.
I still have four or five of the 200 grain.
Johnn, your letters received from Skeeter Skelton and Elmer Keith are long, very detailed and interesting.
It has often come up on CGN threads about loading 357 loads in 38 Special brass. I also, followed Skeeter Skelton's writings and he advocated using 38 special brass for 357 magnum revolvers which had cylinders too short to handle the Keith designed semi wadcutter bullet. Skeeter said to either use 357 brass and crimp on the shoulder, or use 38 brass and crimp in the regular crimp groove.
Whenever this comes up on these threads, there is a big cry to, "Do not load magnum loads in 38 Special brass."
Interesting in your letter that no less of an authority on this than Elmer Keith, discusses each of the methods described above, and states either method is OK for magnum loads!
It has often come up on CGN threads about loading 357 loads in 38 Special brass. I also, followed Skeeter Skelton's writings and he advocated using 38 special brass for 357 magnum revolvers which had cylinders too short to handle the Keith designed semi wadcutter bullet. Skeeter said to either use 357 brass and crimp on the shoulder, or use 38 brass and crimp in the regular crimp groove.
Whenever this comes up on these threads, there is a big cry to, "Do not load magnum loads in 38 Special brass."
Interesting in your letter that no less of an authority on this than Elmer Keith, discusses each of the methods described above, and states either method is OK for magnum loads!
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
As I mentioned previously, as an author, Elmer didn't have the polish or command of the english language Jack had. After meeting and talking with him though, one thing always stuck in my mind. Anytime I've read any of the articles by him or read his books, it was just like talking to him. There must've been very little an editor had been allowed to 'touch' because they were written and printed just like he talked.
When I got my first N-frame Smith, a model 28 Highway Patrolman, one of Elmers loads turned out to be one of the most accurate. His 173gr SW in 38spl cases, pushed by 13.5gr of Hercules 2400. With cylinders that length, using his 173gr SW design and 357 cases, you had to crimp over the forward driving band. I've used that same crimp method when using a 'Keith' style 325gr SW in my 444 Marlin to stay with in a workable C.O.A.L. that is able to cycle through the action.
The 325gr SWGC I mentioned is the one on top. The 250gr on the bottem just makes the maximum length when crimped in the crimping groove.
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- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Here is the letter.
Now that's valuable to a gun guy!
Sadly the letter I had from Warren Page was lost, he was yet another gentleman who would take the time to respond to an eager youngster, even if it was typed.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
That 173 gr SWC backed by 13.5 grs of 2400 was my go to load when I could find those bullets. My gun at the time was a Colt Trooper, and it seems to me that I crimped in the crimping groove, which is strange because I have the impression that S&W cylinders are longer than Colt's. But it was a long time ago now, and I might have been using .38 Special brass. I'm shooting 190 gr SWCs in my M-27 and I crimp those in the crimping groove, but this bullet has the same nose length as a 160 and a longer shank.
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
That's an item I have fond memories of, but my Colt Trooper was in 22LR. With the 173gr Keith SW in 357 cases and for use in my S&W model 28 and a 27, I had to crimp over the forward driving band as the 357 cylinders of the N-frame were a touch shorter. In my model S&W 19 and 66, Ruger Blackhawk, Ruger GP 100 and my Colt Python, the cylinder length was long enough I could crimp in the appropriate crimping groove.
Keith had three main 38spl/357, the 1st was the #358429 that cast out with my mix @ 173gr. His #358431 was the same profile but a hollow base. I had one other variation of that bullet except HP in a single cavity mould and I 'think' it was #358439. I traded that HP mould to a friend up island and, perhaps it's one I should've kept
..try Craig Boddington you may be surprised ...
You bought a 280?
last Jack's rifle ....
Ain't this ironic? A few days ago I found a paperback copy of his book "the hunter's shooting guide" at the local Value Village for just $2.00, it's in great shape. So that's another location to look for good used hunting books. 
unstableryan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Beautiful Okanagan Valley
This is one of my favourite threads I have read on CGN, thanks guys. I was born a couple of years after Jack passed away but my dad had a couple foot thick stack of Outdoor life magazines. At times it felt like I knew the guy. Jack O'connor and Pat McManus if I remember correctly were the first two places I looked when I found a new Outdoor life magazine. There's a good chance that Jack made me a gun nut.
Here is the letter.
Pretty cool, thanks for posting. Definitely a keeper.
