Odd noise during full length sizing - Looking for help to diagnose issue

Devlin

Devlin

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Hey Guys,

I am running into an issue with both Lapua and Alpha Munitions brass in 6.5 Creedmoor. This is once fired brass that I am re-sizing down by .002" measured at the datum line on the shoulder. I have tried a few things to figure out what I am doing wrong here but am still encountering the problem. On the return stroke of the reloading press when the case is coming out of the die I get a loud dragging and rubbing noise and the lower portion of the brass has what I would call drag marks on it.

I have tried two sets of dies now, a Redding standard die and now a Whidden bushing die that is set with a bushing to leave 2 thousandths neck tension on the brass once re-sized. Both dies are eliciting the same results which makes me think I am doing something wrong. I've been reloading a while now and this is the first time encountering this.

I have tried Lyman case lube that is the spray on aerosol variety and get this behaviour, I have tried my own home made re-sizing lube with Lanolin and isopropyl alcohol and encounter this but to a lesser degree though it is still there. Most recently I've moved to Hornady unique case lube/paste and have coated the cases lightly with this. I tumble my brass in corn cob media for a few hours before annealing it and then start re-sizing once the brass has cooled naturally. The annealer is an Annealeez unit.

Pictures and video below of what I am experiencing. Welcome any advice on what else I can try or change in my process to avoid this.







Video

[youtube]cUvqdzhV9J8[/youtube]
 
How to you mesure your ‘.002 ‘ datum line on the shoulder ?? How much are you moving the shoulder from fired case to - .002 ?
My guess is you are over sizing your brass, you are pushing the shoulder too much.

Your gun chamber might also have too much headspace allowing the brass to get too long upon firing - and thereafter - when sizing - you have to move the shoulder too much. This have for effect of blowing the brass body against your sizer wall. Too large a rifle chamber will also do that.
 
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The noise might be the expander ball being dragged out through the neck. Try a bit of lube inside the neck.

The shiny areas on the cases are the areas the die is working the cases. The cases were fired in your rifle? Looks as if the chamber might have some reamer marks in it.
 
I'd have to agree with tiriaq on both counts. Those lines on the cases are super consistent across all five of those cases. Are they the same on the other make of brass or is this both Alpha and Lapua? I see one piece is neck turned and the other four don't appear to be. Since you are using a bushing die, you might want to turn them all the same thickness for consistency? As well, I never use an expander ball. If the necks are properly turned, and the proper bushing die is used for the neck wall thickness, there should be no need for an expander ball.
 
tiriaq said:
The noise might be the expander ball being dragged out through the neck. Try a bit of lube inside the neck.

The shiny areas on the cases are the areas the die is working the cases. The cases were fired in your rifle? Looks as if the chamber might have some reamer marks in it.
Click to expand...

Agreed on both statements. No sense in me typing what you did.
 
These are all Alpha brass, fired from the same rifle from Insite Arms, they do pretty pristine work in my experience. Not saying there isn’t a chance a mistake was made but the rifle shoots incredibly well and I’ve had no extraction issues or anything like that. None of the brass has been neck turned. The marks on the cases are not there after being fired only after being re-sized is what I am seeing.

I am measuring the difference in case size with the tool that Whidden ships with all their dies in order to setup your die correctly and move the brass back sufficiently. It is attached to the jaw of a micrometer and zeroed our to measure at the datum line on the case shoulder.
 
Curious - this idea is new to me for sizing - if you only have one rifle for that cartridge, why would you not size the fired brass to fit the chamber, instead of to fit to a tool??
 
Yeah, the brass does seem expanded a bit...got enough lube at the base end.

May want to bring some fired brass/gun to Insite Arms and see if the dimensions of the chamber is ok.
 
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Potashminer said:
Curious - this idea is new to me for sizing - if you only have one rifle for that cartridge, why would you not size the fired brass to fit the chamber, instead of to fit to a tool??
Click to expand...

I always size down a bit so it feeds reliably in any condition and don't run into stuck rounds during a match etc...
 
Had the same problem and sound with 25-06 improved rds, stuck the second one in the die, found they were from an oversized chamber and were nicol plated, the third round pull the rim off and all the rest 35 rds went in the garbage, planned on saving them as they were once fired in a different rifle as I have a 25-06 Mashburn. same marks on the base of each rd.
 
You should get a chamber cast done.
You don't seem to be pushing the shoulder back far, I doubt two set of dies were built off.
 
try use Imperial sizing die wax
it works great for me.
A little goes a long way and as soon as you start hearing noise that indicates no enough lube in most cases.
hope this helps you.
 
[FONT=&quot]So looks like those of you who guessed not enough lube (that's what she said right ;-) are indeed correct looks like I was just being too conservative with the amount I was using. I cleaned the die out with brake cleaner and fresh cloth patches just to be sure there wasn't something stuck in the die doing this.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]Then I went back to the old method I was using where I covered a traditional lube pad with lyman case lube and then rolled the cases on the pad, as well as used a q-tip to put some lube on the outside of the case necks. Ran them through the die with zero issues, no marking and no weird noises. As with most things down to user error. Do appreciate the replies and advice gang.[/FONT]
 
hawk-i said:
dip the necks in Imperial Dry Neck Lube.
Click to expand...

It really takes balls to say what you did...........real little balls. :evil:

CH3epH9.jpg
 
Devlin said:
So looks like those of you who guessed not enough lube (that's what she said right ;-) are indeed correct looks like I was just being too conservative with the amount I was using. I cleaned the die out with brake cleaner and fresh cloth patches just to be sure there wasn't something stuck in the die doing this. Then I went back to the old method I was using where I covered a traditional lube pad with lyman case lube and then rolled the cases on the pad, as well as used a q-tip to put some lube on the outside of the case necks. Ran them through the die with zero issues, no marking and no weird noises. As with most things down to user error. Do appreciate the replies and advice gang.
Click to expand...

You'll need the lube on the inside of the neck. I noticed the lack of lube chatter you had in the video but no "lacking lube" expander ball screech. Lubing the case neck inside and out (in lieu of graphite powder) is easily achieved by lightly pressing the neck mouth into the lube pad. I usually clean brass after using a wet case lube to avoid any powder contamination... oil on the body is not a big deal, but in the case mouth I just avoid it completely using graphite powder or cleaning off the oil.

You're lucky you didn't jam any of those cases in the die...
 
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