Old South Bend lathe...

[quinnbrian]

Hello all , I just bought an old South Bend model 10 ( not the 10 heavy) . My question , what are the pro and cons of these lathes? Everything works great.... Better then my Chinese lathe and a little bigger. The bed is only 22 with 10inches of travel, but head has a 1 inch hole and the ability to add a spider on the other end when I need it.
So I guess just looking for info. Have used it a little and I like it. The drive motor need a little help ( I think the starter capacitor is a little weak, but an easy fix.
Cheers
Brian
Thanks for looking, and yep I know it's not a new one( I would say ... Made back in the 1940-50's)the serial number Is : UB-102 ( under the tail stock) and haven't been able to find the year built on line, so I'm guess at the age.But I like the old stuff.

 

[tiriaq]

Is the power feed engagement a "tap" or a toggle? Tap style is earlier.
This is a 10K?
The small spindle bore is a disadvantage. Lighter barrels will pass through. The short c-to-c distance doesn't help.
It will certainly be a useful smaller lathe, though. I like the South Bends, have used three of them over the years - a 1932 16" with 57" centers, a 1940s Heavy 10, 36", and a later sheet steel cabinet based 10K, 36".

 

[trevj]

Hello all , I just bought an old South Bend model 10 ( not the 10 heavy) . My question , what are the pro and cons of these lathes? Everything works great.... Better then my Chinese lathe and a little bigger. The bed is only 22 with 10inches of travel, but head has a 1 inch hole and the ability to add a spider on the other end when I need it.
So I guess just looking for info. Have used it a little and I like it. The drive motor need a little help ( I think the starter capacitor is a little weak, but an easy fix.
Cheers
Brian
Thanks for looking, and yep I know it's not a new one( I would say ... Made back in the 1940-50's)the serial number Is : UB-102 ( under the tail stock) and haven't been able to find the year built on line, so I'm guess at the age.But I like the old stuff.

Go log in at Practicalmachinist.

Go to he South Bend sub-forum, post some pictures. Good shot from the front showing the details of the levers both on the carriage and heaadstock, plus gearbox, if so equipped. Lot of guys wih lots of knowledge about the whens and hows, as far as the history of the make, there.

"22 with 10inches of travel" makes no real sense. SB rated their beds by their full length. Are you saying that you think you only can get 22 inches between centers?

Buy a copy of South Bend's book, How To Run A Lathe. They show you how to work in more directions than just with the tool overhanging towards the chuck. That will possibly solve that problem, if I understand correctly what you were trying to convey.

Post pictures here too! Always interested in seeing other guys' toys!

Cheers
Trev

 

[ssapach]

You can always email the South Bend Lathe company with your serial number. They might be able to give you some info, or at the very least an age of the unit. That's how I dated mine, but year is all they could tell me.

 

[trevj]

Be aware that despite the hooey on their website, the current version of South Bend, is actually a sideline brand of Grizzly Tools in the states.

South Bend died it's inevitable death after several reorganizations and buyouts that it went through, while it was still selling essentially the same products it was in the 1940's, and the owner of Grizzly Tools bought the rights to use the name some time later. Despite that the website makes claims about the brand, they have as much to do with the old stuff as the guys selling Indian bikes have to do with the original company, aka: none.
To his credit a bit, he is trying to provide some info and support, to the guys with old lathes, but don't expect anything in the way of parts so much.

Cheers
Trev

 

[CanAm]

Pros: Lightweight, bench mounted, cool looking, part of the SB club, not a cheap Chinese lathe, inexpensive, great first lathe that can do some heavyish work

Cons: lightweight, small bore, no power to the carriage, often noisy, not great for heavy work, not great for negative carbide inserts (used CCMT/CCGT or other positive inserts)

 

[trevj]

Pros: Lightweight, bench mounted, cool looking, part of the SB club, not a cheap Chinese lathe, inexpensive, great first lathe that can do some heavyish work

Cons: lightweight, small bore, no power to the carriage, often noisy, not great for heavy work, not great for negative carbide inserts (used CCMT/CCGT or other positive inserts)

Another pro. Brand recognition! Lots of guys online have been singing the praises of the brand for so long, that newbs mistakenly think all their problems will go away somehow, if only they buy the blessed South Bend! Mostly hooey, but it does help with resale!

Potential con: Wear. It isn't new, and depending entirely upon how hard a life it had, it could well be way past usefulness. But most likely, it still hs some life left in it.
On the other end of that, it is well worth digging around the web for the essay titled In (modest) Praise of Klunkers. Written by a machine tool dealer that dealt with way too many guys that wanted a "Perfect" lathe.

Remember Voltaire. "Perfect is the enemy of the Good" The worst, most worn out clapped to near scrap lathe, on your bench, is still more capable a machine than the very best Brochure picture you will ever see!

Learn to make the machine work for you, you should not have to work for the machine.

Not to say there will not be a learning curve that will at times feel like running into a brick wall, but the machine does not think, and the operator should!

Cheers
Trev

 

[quinnbrian]

Yes it is the older model with the power feed knob. It has power feed on the carriage, and the crossfeed. It doesn't have a counter for threading, but I guess they're available.

And yes the smallbore through the head is a disadvantage, but I was wondering maybe if you could be bored out a lot little larger. Everything seems to be in good working order, I haven't had time to put a dial indicator on it. But everything seems to be very tight. Possibly not one that's been used a whole bunch .

It seems to have just about everything you would want in a small late.

When I said it had 22 inches I meant between centers, the overall length is about 4 feet long or maybe a little better . I work out of town four days a week so I'm not in front of the machine right now but that said maybe around 4 feet maybe a little bit longer. It has the old cast-iron built-in stand, with the under drive motor. The motor seems a little weak, I think maybe some rust got to it over the years . But worst-case I'll just put a new motor in it.

Thanks for all the response I thought it was an interesting lathe when I bought it and am more impressed with it now.

Cheers
Brian

 

[BCRider]

Do NOT for even a moment consider trying to bore out the spindle to a larger through hole. While it's a nice machine a 1 inch hole tells me that it's not a very large outer diameter. And that means it will want all the metal it has to be stiffer and act as damping towards limiting chatter. Removal of anything more than a few thou skim cut would adversely affect the machine. And a few thou is not going to make any sort of meaningful difference.

The old SB's have a faithful following out there that support each other. Having one is your entry key to The SB Club. Find them on one of the machining forums and bring your own chair to sit around the stove.

You don't need to try to buy "How to Run a Lathe" by South Bend. It's out there free for downloading at a number of locations. Here's one;

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3789.pdf

You're likely to find that with a smaller and lighter lathe such as this that you get as good or better results from using HSS tool bits that you grind to shape yourself. The keen cutting edge of a correctly shaped and sharp HSS tool loads the machines down less than a lot of the inserts. CanAm mentioned avoiding the negative rake cutters which is a good idea. But even some of the positive rake inserts still use a small edge radius or have a significant flat or other sort of higher load shape to the cutting edge. So it's well worth trying some HSS tooling as well. The inserts have some other traits that make them less than ideal for small machines and home shop machinists as well. To use them right you need to observe a minimum cut for many of them. A problem that you won't have with HSS cutters.

 

[desporterizer]

Remember Voltaire. "Perfect is the enemy of the Good" The worst, most worn out clapped to near scrap lathe, on your bench, is still more capable a machine than the very best Brochure picture you will ever see!

Learn to make the machine work for you, you should not have to work for the machine.

Not to say there will not be a learning curve that will at times feel like running into a brick wall, but the machine does not think, and the operator should!

Cheers
Trev

I can add a few lines to that essay in defense of klunkers. My machine is so beat I actually feel sorry for it . Beats having nothing at all by a fair margin though as I can still hold tolerances to +- 1 thou with careful polishing to flatten the high spots caused by the wavy ways. I really should level that thing too....

 

[quinnbrian]

Do NOT for even a moment consider trying to bore out the spindle to a larger through hole. While it's a nice machine a 1 inch hole tells me that it's not a very large outer diameter. And that means it will want all the metal it has to be stiffer and act as damping towards limiting chatter. Removal of anything more than a few thou skim cut would adversely affect the machine. And a few thou is not going to make any sort of meaningful difference.

The old SB's have a faithful following out there that support each other. Having one is your entry key to The SB Club. Find them on one of the machining forums and bring your own chair to sit around the stove.

You don't need to try to buy "How to Run a Lathe" by South Bend. It's out there free for downloading at a number of locations. Here's one;

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/3789.pdf

You're likely to find that with a smaller and lighter lathe such as this that you get as good or better results from using HSS tool bits that you grind to shape yourself. The keen cutting edge of a correctly shaped and sharp HSS tool loads the machines down less than a lot of the inserts. CanAm mentioned avoiding the negative rake cutters which is a good idea. But even some of the positive rake inserts still use a small edge radius or have a significant flat or other sort of higher load shape to the cutting edge. So it's well worth trying some HSS tooling as well. The inserts have some other traits that make them less than ideal for small machines and home shop machinists as well. To use them right you need to observe a minimum cut for many of them. A problem that you won't have with HSS cutters.

Thanks BCRider for the free download I'm old school....no old in age....well maybe,just ask my son (17 years young) so HSS is the way to go...and can make the shapes you want/need, with just a little time and effort.

 

[quinnbrian]

I can add a few lines to that essay in defense of klunkers. My machine is so beat I actually feel sorry for it . Beats having nothing at all by a fair margin though as I can still hold tolerances to +- 1 thou with careful polishing to flatten the high spots caused by the wavy ways. I really should level that thing too....

LOL looks like its time for a rebuild.

 

[quinnbrian]

Just returned home, Its Thursday night 10:30ish Ontario time ,will try and get pics up in the next couple of day.

Was thinking all week, I have a 1.5 hp treadmill that doesn't get used very much Would that be a good DC motor for my lathe...just asking, was thinking of the variable speed aspect. So don't shoot me!
cheers
Brian

 

[quinnbrian]

Here are some pics.

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Got the motor working , needed a capacitor....good as new, but still needs a good going over.

This is the number under the tailstock

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[CanAm]

How does that get power to the carriage?

 

[quinnbrian]

How does that get power to the carriage?

In the last pic, just above the serial number pic, you can see a lever just behind the power on off lever, it has forward, neutral, and reverse. On the carriage, it has a lever for threading(lower far right), and a dial behind the carriage wheel for carriage engage.

 

[CanAm]

In the last pic, just above the serial number pic, you can see a lever just behind the power on off lever, it has forward, neutral, and reverse. On the carriage, it has a lever for threading(lower far right), and a dial behind the carriage wheel for carriage engage.

But through what shaft? Not the leadscrew, I assume. Mine has a power shaft and the leadscrew.

 

[trevj]

But through what shaft? Not the leadscrew, I assume. Mine has a power shaft and the leadscrew.

Like as not, with a keyway on the lead screw. Pretty standard for the South Bend machines.

The key drives the carriage feeds while the half nut for threading uses the threads on the lead screw.

Cheers
Trev

 

[tiriaq]

That is a heavy 10. The 1 1/4" spindle bore is large enough for most barrel work. Make a spider for the left end. A 10K is a much lighter machine.
The lead screw has threads, plus a longitudinal groove. Engage the half nuts, the thread moves the carriage. Engage the friction clutch, power is transmitted using the groove.
That is an elderly machine, '30s - '40s. Old tech, but still very useful.
Looks as if it could use a new drive belt. These can be purchased, with patent end fittings, or made, using heavy leather, with the splice laced.
Start with a really good cleaning and lubricating.
You are going to want to go over it end to end, see if there are any miseries.

 

[CanAm]

Like as not, with a keyway on the lead screw. Pretty standard for the South Bend machines.

The key drives the carriage feeds while the half nut for threading uses the threads on the lead screw.

Cheers
Trev

Yes, makes sense. Just curious as I had not seen it before.