#### on close vs open

E

ENFIELD1911

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I tried to find some information on the plus/minus comparison of the two but it would take reading over thread after thread to potentially not get a clear answer. I figured it would be easier to just ask the people who know and understand the inner workings of these actions. I'm not trying to make a firearm comparison but rather an mechanism comparison. I am also curious as to why there is no modern #### on close action outside of the AIA considering the length of service of the Enfield
 
I have always felt cocking on closing was more of an obsolete military concept... ramming the bolt shut quickly with force... there is no reason for it to be popular in the sporting field.
 
#### on close is faster IMO, more power camming the case out if it's dirty, sticky or swelled. A throw back to a time when these characteristics meant supremacy on the battlefield.
Mauser aficionado's can turn red in the face all they want; the LE was the AK-47 of it's time. It ruled the battlefield. Not as accurate, well made as Mauser's and no panache. Also the Bolt action rifle I'd want as a regular soldier.
 
I have always felt cocking on closing was more of an obsolete military concept... ramming the bolt shut quickly with force... there is no reason for it to be popular in the sporting field.

Wouldn't that make it better for hunting? Especially in Big Game situations
 
Prior to the model 1898, Mausers were #### on closing.

tokguy said:
#### on close is faster IMO, more power camming the case out if it's dirty, sticky or swelled. A throw back to a time when these characteristics meant supremacy on the battlefield.
Mauser aficionado's can turn red in the face all they want; the LE was the AK-47 of it's time. It ruled the battlefield. Not as accurate, well made as Mauser's and no panache. Also the Bolt action rifle I'd want as a regular soldier.
Click to expand...
 
I've got lots of varied rifles in both and the #### on closing is starting to feel funny. Perhaps I've too many 98 versions as of late...
The little shock absorber at the end of the bolt cycle actually makes so you can really fly for rapid fire. Recharging the rifle being taken off the table; an American Krag can really cycle fast. There is a youtube clip where a fellow with a Krag own's the field speedshooting
 
#### on close vs open makes no difference whatsoever on a hunting rifle. Doesn't on a battle rifle either.
Krags never saw extensive combat. Ain't nothing cycles like a Lee-Enfield either.
 
I once went on a Norwegian gun forum and asked them if they thought one was faster than the other. They didn't think it made a difference for speed. I think they are the kings as far as fast shooting with a boltgun is concerned:

[youtube]4EuvkUAHEDg[/youtube]

[youtube]eC4_g6N3aLA[/youtube]
 
sunray said:
#### on close vs open makes no difference whatsoever on a hunting rifle. Doesn't on a battle rifle either.
Krags never saw extensive combat. Ain't nothing cycles like a Lee-Enfield either.
Click to expand...

Again with Sunray's seagull imitation; swoops in, squawks, drops a load of Guano and flies away to the next. Never looks back either. Too funny
 
tokguy said:
Again with Sunray's seagull imitation; swoops in, squawks, drops a load of Guano and flies away to the next. Never looks back either. Too funny
Click to expand...

I have to agree... it doesn't matter what the subject is, whether he has any knowledge of it, the Guano gets left...
 
tokguy said:
Again with Sunray's seagull imitation; swoops in, squawks, drops a load of Guano and flies away to the next. Never looks back either. Too funny
Click to expand...

/!\ this !! hits the nail on the head. Somebody else said in a different thread "wait till Sunray posts then do the exact opposite" lol.
 
I don't think Sunray knows how to search his own posts in order to revisit them. Lol!
Its just stop, plop, and go!
 
tokguy said:
Again with Sunray's seagull imitation; swoops in, squawks, drops a load of Guano and flies away to the next. Never looks back either. Too funny
Click to expand...

Laugh2

Nice to see people are finally catching on.....

I like to call it the Sunray power hour, happens every weekday at the same time. :D
 
I'm not trying to make a firearm comparison but rather an mechanism comparison. I am also curious as to why there is no modern #### on close action outside of the AIA considering the length of service of the Enfield
Click to expand...

good vid here [video=youtube;Re6TVCBWins]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Re6TVCBWins[/video]

good question asked ... I never really paid attention to the why's .. but it appears that "#### on opening" is really 1/2 #### on opening - 1/2 #### on closing from what I see.

I imagine that the force is greater on the sear when using a #### on closing action during rapid fire - would this accelerate wear? I dont know. Certainly from the example in the video the #### on opening benefits from some mechanical advantage exerted by the camming surfaces on the lugs/locking surfaces.

HOWEVER I have an Model 1950 Mannlicher Schoenauer with a butterknife bolt handle that is difficult to operate when held at the shoulder: the combination of longer reach to the forward location of the butter knife bolt handle and the long striker/ heavy spring requiring considerable force to open it seems to combine and make it difficult to #### without lowering the butt. I think this is a rifle that could benefit from a #### on closing arrangement. I have no problem with No. 4's or Remington/Sako/Steyr/Brno/Mauser etc etc ... just this Model 1950 fwiw
 
kombayotch said:
I once went on a Norwegian gun forum and asked them if they thought one was faster than the other. They didn't think it made a difference for speed. I think they are the kings as far as fast shooting with a boltgun is concerned:
Click to expand...

VERY interesting! So the Norwegians have a course of fire that emphasizes accuracy and speed.
 
The more I think about it, the more #### on closing makes sense to me. #### on opening adds more effort to the part of the bolt cycle that already requires the most effort, since primary extraction occurs during the lift of the bolt.
 
C.O.O. makes for a simple, some what safe and easy way to carry a round in the chamber
while out for a stroll.
Load your rifle, hold trigger and close bolt.
Round in chamber and firing pin uncocked.
Lift and drop bolt to ready the firing pin.
 
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