One rifle, one calibre, one cartride.
- Thread starter YukonBrett
- Start date
We shoot ours to 400 meters with ladder sights... ring the gong regularly... I know a couple guys who lob them to 600 meters, but this takes a special breed (not me) and I would not like to see it done on game.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Hoyt is making an excellent point. Lets not forget that the men using the .45-70 and other early black powder centerfires on Bison generally weren't all that concerned if animals didn't die in a quick manner they were shooting as many as they could as quickly as they could so while certainly 800+ yard shots were made with them rountinely how many animals were wounded and not recovered at those ranges is not often mentioned. As well those chaps were often firing dozens of rounds a day in real field conditions and truly came to know their rifles in manner that many of us can only hope to.
So while I love my lever guns and the cartridges they are/ were chambered for I would have give the nod to a 225 grain partition from a .338 Win Mag with a good set of irons and probably a Remington 700 that would be my choice for one gun, chambering and load for all of NA.
Forgot to mention scope, I'm back and forth between a 2-7 or 4-12 Leupold for the set up so lets say both zeroed for load and in QD rings.
So while I love my lever guns and the cartridges they are/ were chambered for I would have give the nod to a 225 grain partition from a .338 Win Mag with a good set of irons and probably a Remington 700 that would be my choice for one gun, chambering and load for all of NA.
Forgot to mention scope, I'm back and forth between a 2-7 or 4-12 Leupold for the set up so lets say both zeroed for load and in QD rings.
20mikemike or bust.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Serious? For "living off the land" would be a 22 Mag solid 94/22 or bolt action. For being "legal", would be FN Mauser, Synthetic stock, iron sights and Leupold M8-4x, 9.3x62 (286 gr Partition). Gophers to Polar Bears.
I don't doubt it.....
Not underpowered but not ideal for all situations for everything from pronghorns on the prairies, to blacktails and whitetails in the thick stuff to moose, bison and big bears. While most of us will not argue against a .45-70 but it certainly isn't a 400 yard rig in the hands of most of us.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
Probably a boring old 7mm rem mag... Some stout boat tail'ish bonded bullet that's heavy... For a chassis I'd be looking at a Sauer or a sako... Possibly a weatherby... NOT a remlin... If your stuck with just one rifle in one clambering you may as well make sure it's a nice rifle, who picks a Remmy 700 or a Savage for a "one gun" thread?!?! Lol
If you need to have a bolt action in extreme cold, the Remington is not the best choice IMHO. The Trigger mech is too close tolerance and any oil in it can congeal and cause malfunction in extreme temperatures. A simpler mech such as a Win 70 or Mauser trigger setup is much more reliable in the cold. Food for thought.
When the local smith sets guns up for northern hunts, he advises against a Remington for this reason and de-greases the heck out of the trigger group with brake cleaner if the customer is insistent.
No one cartridge will do EVERYTHING well, but many will do everything passably in the hands of the right shooter. The .45-70 can be shot well at distance, just ask any BPCR shooter - lots of great shots out to 1000 yards have been made with it. A larger optic might need to be mounted on the Marlin to get there though.
I'd rather have to stalk a sheep a little closer than to come up against a charging polar bear or grizz with a flat-shooting barn burner like the 7mm mag, for example. Mass and hole size DOES matter when up against dangerous game.
And anyone saying the above statement has some backing up with facts to do if they want to maintain credibility
.45-70 has one of the most dynamic load ranges from fast and light to heavy and slow of any round in existence. Massive bullet selection owing to a cult-like following in the USA. The Marlin 1895 is a versatile package that can take the highest pressure .45-70 loads.The only weakness I can think of is that lever gun extraction is not as positive as a CRF bolt. Nevertheless, they have proven adequately reliable for me and there's a reason it's what most alaskan guides have carried consistently over time.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Its not a question of power, or accuracy, but one of trajectory. The trajectory of the .45/70 makes range estimation critical as the bullet plunges once its beyond the zero range. If you attempt to zero the rifle for an abnormally long range, say 200 yards, the midrange trajectory of half a foot makes a 100 yard shot as dicey as a a long one. If the rifle is more appropriately zeroed for 150 yards, the MRT is a manageable 3", while the the drop at 200 is going to be 8"-10". The drop beyond 200 yards is about 4" for each additional 10 yards of range, and by the time the range is 400 yards, the drop increases to 8" per 10 yards of range.
That's not to say that its not possible to shoot long range with the old black powder big bore cartridges; the 1000 yards records shot in the 1870s and 1880s stood for generations. Even today, a 1000 yard group of 8.6" would tend to make a recreational shooter (not the competitor) puff out his chest and impersonate a peacock for a while. In 1874, Billy Dixon firing his .50-90 Sharps put lead on Quanah Parker at Adobe Walls, at a range later determined by surveyors as being 1538 yards, a mere 2 yards short of being seven-eigths of a mile. The fact that Dixon was a gun crank, experimenter, and a dedicated long range shooter, with exceptional equipment for the day (1874) and that Quanah Parker was on horseback at the precise spot where Dixon frequently placed his long range targets, cannot be overemphasized. Even today, an intentional 1538 yard shot, on a live human target in battle, while not a record, is exceptional. So yes, the old black powder, big bore rifles were accurate and capable of making long range shots, provided the marksman was a knowledgeable and exceptionally gifted shooter. Most of us aren't and are better served in the field with hunting rifles capable of driving high BC bullets at 3000 fps, sighted so we can hold with little allowance for trajectory to 300 yards. If Ben Huchak was still posting, I'm sure he would champion the .45/70 as a fine general purpose cartridge, and might even get in a shot about anyone being foolish enough to spend $1 or more on a premium jacketed bullet.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
And anyone saying the above statement has some backing up with facts to do if they want to maintain credibility
The only weakness I can think of is that lever gun extraction is not as positive as a CRF bolt. Nevertheless, they have proven adequately reliable for me and there's a reason it's what most alaskan guides have carried consistently over time.
I agree the .45/70 is popular, but I disagree on the point of its versatility. Its a fine woods cartridge where ranges never exceed 200 yards, and properly loaded it has sufficient power for the largest game. But a cartridge's versatility must be judged against what other popular cartridges can do. When we think of cartridge versatility the .30/06 frequently comes to mind. It won't work as well as a varmint rifle for shooting that coyote a quarter mile across the field, but if the shooter armed with a .30/06 does his part, that's a dead yote. It doesn't kill heavy game as efficiently as a big bore, but its balance of power and recoil make it a suitable choice for the majority of shooters who might choose to turn their sights on large species of big game. The .45/70 does one thing well, it puts big power on the target, and if chambered in a lever action, it can put lots of power on the target in a short period of time. To my way of thinking, that makes the .45/70 an excellent niche cartridge, particularly as used by brown bear guides, but as a general purpose cartridge it leaves much to be desired.
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