Ontario geographic caliber limitations

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2tall2 said:
Why does anyone need to know the bullet diameter? The barrel is stamped with the caliber. The regulation also states caliber. That is all that matters.
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The .275 Rigby and the .284 Winchester are both 7mm ( bore dia. .275", bullet/groove dia. .284") and fire exactly the same bullet. By your definition, one would be legal and the other not.
 
2tall2 said:
My Winchester Model 70 barrel is stamped ".270 Caliber."

The Ontario Hunting regulations state "...may not carry or use a rifle of greater calibre than a .275-calibre rifle,..."

That's all I need to know.
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And you are correct.
 
Found this on another Ontario Outdoors Website

Question 63:
"You may not use a rifle of greater calibre than .275 ...for hunting small game in the counties of ...".
This would infer that it is legal to use a rifle commonly referred to as a .270 Win to hunt small game in the specified counties. However, the actual projectile diameter is .277".
How does the MNR define calibre (projectile diameter, bore before rifling is cut, groove to groove, land to land, etc.) ? & on what value does the MNR determine compliance (actual measurement or the data stamp on the barrel (ie. .270 vs .30-30)) ?
Asked August 22, 2000
Answer from the MNR
The MNR stance on this section is that we use the nominal calibre of the firearm in determining compliance. That is, even though as you have correctly suggested, the actual dimensions of a .270 cal. shell are .277, we accept that rifle as being a .270 and therefore treat it as a legal firearm within the restricted areas.
 
And for anyone that wonders what the actually regulation says......

"A person hunting small game may not carry or use a rifle of greater calibre than a .275-calibre rifle "
 
9.3mauser said:
The .275 Rigby and the .284 Winchester are both 7mm ( bore dia. .275", bullet/groove dia. .284") and fire exactly the same bullet. By your definition, one would be legal and the other not.
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It's not my definition. It's the caliber marked on the firearm, that is what matters. I would bet a good percentage of firearms owners would never know the diameter of projectiles their firearm uses, but they will know the caliber marked on it. And the regulation in question states 'calibre' not bullet diameter.
 
A rifle barrel marked 270 Winchester....270 winchester indicates the CARTRIDGE the rifle is chambered for....CALIBER is the diameter of the bullet, .277 or the largest diameter of the bore, .277....it only takes 1 anti CO or police officer to lay a charge and set a precedent, not an argument I would want to have with a judge. (Websters definitions, the one the court tends to use without specific definitions by a governing body).
 
I guess Remington did us all a favour when they invented the .260 Rem so that we could stop debating the .270 Win for Southern Ontario....:dancingbanana::ar15:
 
2tall2 said:
It's not my definition. It's the caliber marked on the firearm, that is what matters. I would bet a good percentage of firearms owners would never know the diameter of projectiles their firearm uses, but they will know the caliber marked on it. And the regulation in question states 'calibre' not bullet diameter.
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The caliber is not stamped on the barrel, the name of the cartridge for which the rifle is chambered is stamped on the barrel. A number of named cartridges may be of the same caliber. If a rifle barrel was simply stamped .30 without any other identification for the cartridge which fit in the chamber, things would be interesting indeed. Conversely we don't consider a .308 as being larger than a .300 magnum despite the stamp on the barrel, because we know the caliber of both barrels is .308.
 
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awaiting MNR response. Commenting on 5 pages and still failing is a fail in itself. This is a very vague reg that needs clarification and I will go with what MNR says.
 
Jabol said:
awaiting MNR response. Commenting on 5 pages and still failing is a fail in itself. This is a very vague reg that needs clarification and I will go with what MNR says.
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Waterfowler gave the MNR's response in post 44. The reg is not vague at all, you just want it to be. The reg clearly says "A person hunting small game may not carry or use a rifle of greater calibre than a .275-calibre rifle". 270 is less than 275. Yes the projectile diameter is .277, but the nominal calibre is 270. Be sure to copy and paste the MNRs response to you here so we can say I told you so. LOL
 
this just came in today (thanks to all who will say "I told you so"). I just wanted my own copy of this, sent to my own email so I can drop this in a gun case and be done with it.

Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry.

The Ministry of Natural Resources' stance on this section of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act (FWCA) is that we use the nominal calibre of the firearm to determine compliance. That is, even though the actual dimension of a .270 calibre bullet is .277, we accept that rifle as being a .270 and therefore treat it as a legal firearm within the restricted areas.



Regards,



NRIC web reader - CG

************************************

Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources

Natural Resources Information Centre

300 Water Street,P.O. Box 7000

Peterborough, ON K9J 8M5

1-800-667-1940

TTY: 1-866-686-6072

Fax: 705-755-1677

mnr.nric.mnr@ontario.ca
 
Jabol said:
this just came in today (thanks to all who will say "I told you so"). I just wanted my own copy of this, sent to my own email so I can drop this in a gun case and be done with it.

Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry.

The Ministry of Natural Resources' stance on this section of the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act (FWCA) is that we use the nominal calibre of the firearm to determine compliance. That is, even though the actual dimension of a .270 calibre bullet is .277, we accept that rifle as being a .270 and therefore treat it as a legal firearm within the restricted areas.



Regards,



NRIC web reader - CG

************************************

Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources

Natural Resources Information Centre

300 Water Street,P.O. Box 7000

Peterborough, ON K9J 8M5

1-800-667-1940

TTY: 1-866-686-6072

Fax: 705-755-1677

mnr.nric.mnr@ontario.ca
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So now you have the legal opinion of a MNRIC WEB READER CG on the (stance) of MNR. where is MNR's official definition stating that caliber means nominal caliber as marked on firearm? I've looked for it and can't find any such reference. Without a legal MNR definition, stances and policies can be change at a whim. A simple solution would be to amend the regulation to .277 caliber and remove the ( MNR stance) of nominal caliber.
 
sheeeeh.....243 will solve my dilemma. Too bad this will be gnawing at my brain that this may as well remain an unresolved issue. I agree, how can I bring "NRIC web reader - CG" to a stand and testify in my defense?
 
Sooo, if I take a 338 lapua and make a wildcat by changing the shoulder angle, and call it a 274 blaster ( because it's my own design, I can call it what ever I want), the nominal caliber "274", makes it legal? I would bet that MNR would charge me for using to large a caliber under the legal definition of caliber. As long as it is just MNR stance or policy, you leave yourself open to abuse. Why won't MNR just put a definition in the regs or change the caliber to .277?
 
Jabol said:
sheeeeh.....243 will solve my dilemma. Too bad this will be gnawing at my brain that this may as well remain an unresolved issue. I agree, how can I bring "NRIC web reader - CG" to a stand and testify in my defense?
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My point exactly, use a cartridge that leaves no question if it is legal.
 
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