Opinions of Ziess DDR scopes

Noel

Noel

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Hello all,

I just bought a rifle with a Ziess DDR 4X on it. German reticle.

Anyone know what the quality is like with them? I have heard they may not be all that great but appreciate any info good or bad you may have.

Thanks!
Noel
 
These are Zeiss Jena (East German (Deutsche Demokratische Republik) or DDR). I've got one just like it and it's bright and clear. Not sure how they compare for coatings and waterproofing, though.
 
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Thanks Guy's, I am sure for a fixed 4 it will be more than bright enough. I was just a bit concerned when I heard bad info on a Ziess.

By the way Dan, it does have a rail going along the bottom of the tube instead of rings. It must be a 30mm tube, sure looks fat!

Do the scopes readily come off the rail or is it a factory mount system?

Thanks,
Noel
 
If it is like the ones with which I have experience, the rail is part of the scope. These were sold for use on Brno rifles, etc, and fit the dovetails on the receiver. The scopes seemed decent enough, not sure if the reticle stays centred or not. Zeiss-Jena has nothing to do with the West German Zeiss concern.
 
Noel: FWIW, you'll find two adjustment dials on the top of the scope. The one further forward adjusts elevation (remember that the reticle moves in these scopes). It also has what looks like a coin slot that allows you to lock the setting in place. The rear adjustment is your focus.

Windage is set by adjusting the four screws (two per side) on either side of the forward part of the rail. It looks like a pretty sturdy system. Also, the scope can be completely removed by simply unscrewing the two (claw) knobs that hold the base fixed to the receiver.

I think that they are probably pretty decent at holding their zero. Being able to change to irons in close cover or mount a scope if you're hunting in open country would be a distinct advantage with a big thumper like the 9.3x62. :)
 
You guy's are a great help! tiriaq, thanks for your observations! Good to hear positive feedback.;)

Nestor, thank you for the tips on the sight in. I wondered how on earth the windage could be adjusted from the top second turret. Sounds a bit more challenging to get adjusted if it even needs it, but it will be fun to learn a new setup just the same.
I couldn't agree with you more regarding the quick removal system, I will feel alot more confident in the event my Elk steps out at 250 yards.:)

Noel
 
To add... they are not nitrogen purged. They are ok in wet and cold conditions but the sealing is not all that exotic (having seen one dismantled) ... the heavy grease on the threads is pretty much the limit of the waterproofing. Interestingly though I have never had one fog up on me or show any entry of moisture and I have used them in pretty miserable conditions - YMMV.

The later versions before they discontinued manufacture were multi coated and a little better contrast. I believe that Docter Optic acquired them.

Mine have been very dependable ...cause they are very simple in design - one 4x is mounted on a 375 H&H ZKK and has been excellent!

The optics are as good as any I have seen for sharpness, flatness of field and colour/contrast. As mentionned they are not a "constantly centered reticle" and only elevation is in the scope.... windage is accomplished by the base.

The history behind Zeiss Jena is interesting and they and former Zeiss Oberkochen had some battles over who could use the name. As far as I know the original head office of Zeiss and major production was in Jena. When the Soviets invaded some employees managed to escape and move production to West Germany while the Soviets dismantled the Jena facilities and shipped a lot of equipment east. Production in Jena subsequently commenced again ... but the acrimony between the 2 facilities (East and West) was an ongoing issue for them.

West German Zeiss products are generally coonsidered a little better. Beter QC and use of superior materials at times. Multi-coating was employed by Zeiss West Germany b4 the Jena facility. The scopes from West Germany Zeiss and their subsidiary Hensoldt are (in my opinion) superior overall BUT the Jena plant did manufacture some outstanding binoculars such as the Nobilem porroprism bino's.. etc
 
Not really sure about the dates for the scopes.....Zeiss Jena seems to have got in the swing of things "post war" about 1952. Sometime in the mid '60's they moved scope production to Eisfeld. At that point they started to produce a significant output.

I think most of what we see here in Canada came via Pragotrade who imported the BRNO ZKK rifles ... I purchased a couple of 4x with rail mounts (with bases for the ZKK actions) and somewhere I have a 4x with a straight 26mm tube. (maybe a 6x as well but can't find it anymore) all from Pragotrade -btw these straight tube scopes (eg without the rail) had provision for windage and elevation via the typical dials at 12 and 3 ...

It is probable that much of what we see was produced from the late 60's early '70's till sometime in the early '90's when I believe Pragotrade stopped importing firearms. To narrow it down - most likely the '80's

As for Zeiss Jena scopes... they seem to have ceased production about 1991 when Docter Optiks took them over. I know that some of the very early scopes with the Docter trademark looked suspicously like the Zeiss Jena scopes ....

According to what I can find Docter Optik went t**s up in 1995 and were absorbed by a consortium and managed by Rodenstock...another pretty good German optics firm.

As I said in the earlier post ... the optical quality seems pretty good. They seem to be less obsessed with nitrogen purging and sealing etc than say Leupold....but that may be legacy from Zeiss sniper scopes from WWII where frequently drainage holes were drilled in the tubes to let water out (and in I guess) .. but they seemed to be satisfactory for their purpose.

I have examined (and owned) some Jena binoculars ... the Jenoptic line was very inexpensive and of adequate quality....the Deltrintem line was a step up and certainly better constructed...the Nobilem line was the top and frankly as good as any manufacturer has produced .. period! So they certainly followed American practices of targeting various price points with commensurate quality. I have often wondered how these scopes were meant to be positionned...they were pretty inexpensive here... but as you have seen they are pretty good.

BTW ... as Pragotrade sold them... they came in a little grey leatherette roll-up case with clear plastic (or in the earlier versions - leather) protective end caps. Also included was a little brush, a yellow filter that could be used on the objective lens and a little rubber accordion style eyecup for the ocular lense.
 
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BTW ... as Pragotrade sold them... they came in a little grey leatherette roll-up case with clear plastic (or in the earlier versions - leather) protective end caps. Also included was a little brush, a yellow filter that could be used on the objective lens and a little rubber accordion style eyecup for the ocular lense.
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The 7x57 (22F) that I picked up a couple of weeks ago (from the same shop and I expect from the same lot) is rollmarked "1955" and has the Zeiss Jena 4x scope with leather lens caps. So, sounds like these represent earlier production.
 
Well if I have any issues with this scope (doubt I will) I certainly know who to chat to, you guy's are Guru's!

Nestor, have you tried out your 22F yet? Just curious how the hieght of the scope with the rail system seems.

On my 21H I have the steel CZ 527(?) rings and they are higher than I'd like them to be. Maybe the Talleys or EAW's will get me lower. I can print very nice groups with it as is so maybe if it ain't broke.....

Noel
 
The height of the scope is ideal for me. It fits just as it should so I can't see changing anything.
IMG_2121.jpg

IMG_2123.jpg


I've only had it out to the local indoor range (~40 yards). Here's the results (basically, sighting in the scope and confirming that everything was tight)
IMG_2120.jpg
 
Sweet Rig Nestor, real sweet!
I hope to land one of those some day for my Bride to use, Mannlicher stocks are so nice. And that shooting looks A okay to me too, I will be more than satisfied with those kind of groups. My 21H will do it. Not the greates pic, but you can see the CZ's sit a bit higher on mine:
F1000018.jpg


A bit off the side but is the butt pad and tooling on the extractor factory on your rifle? That safety is quite unique too, never seen one like that.

Noel
 
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Noel, that scope just wont cut it. I think you should pass it on to me for a small disposal fee and get yourself a Leupold :D

I will take care of it for you and you can thank me later ;)
 
Okay Dave, meet you at the bike rack at first recess!:p

Sorry I didn't get back to you this weekend, it was pure meyhem around the house! There was no way I was getting away, or having someone come over to play.:(

Noel
 
I believe most of that factory was toted off to Belarus by the Red Army post-war, hence the cheap Russian copies of the Jena stuff. I assume they restarted things in the 50's with the ex-staff. I believe Dr. Optik runs that plant now, as stated above. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Zeiss had a hand in it again.
 
SillyMike, I've not seen the top of the scope yet, hope to by this weekend, they ship today! Yahoo!
That detailed info would be great to see, would you mind emailing it to me, or faxing, or something?

Noel
 
Found it...

Your manual for riflescopes ZF 4 and 6, but the important points only:

Adjusting the visual acuity
The telescopic sight’s visual acuity is adjusted by turning the knurled
button on the ocular side. The knurled button can be set to - 3 dioptres by
anti-clockwise turning. This setting is for short-sighted persons. Turning
the button to + 2 dioptres adjusts the telescopic sight for far-sighted
persons.
The maximum values are attained by turning the button by 90 °. Integration
of a limit stop was dispensed with to avoid damage caused by overwinding.
The adjustment for persons with normal vision is made by turning the knurled
button until the white dot on the knurled button is aligned with the index
line on the main tube.
Persons with defective vision are advised to wear their normal spectacles.
Scope sight adjustment

The scope sight height can be adjusted by turning the knurled button on the
lens side. A permanent fixation is carried out after zeroing in.
A +- 90 ° rotation corresponds to a height movement of 67 cm on a target
that is 100 m away. The maximum adjustment range of 134 cm is passed through
with the rotational range of 180°. To prevent forcible damage, no limit stop
is provided for.
Range estimation
The free space between the scope sight’s cross bars corresponds to a width
of 70 cm at a 100 m distance from target. The diameter of cross bar and post
reticule is specified such that a 20 cm wide strip is covered on a target
that is 100 m away. In this way, the scope sight serves as range estimation
aid.

I hope I could help you.
Best regards,
Bernd Fischer
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