Opinions on Best Long Range Rifle for Deer, Moose and Elk

Status
Not open for further replies.
After reading all of the posts, I was wondering if anyone has had a gun smith (located in Western Canada) build their long range rifle, and if so in what caliber and by who? Thanks
 
Last edited:
There's nothing wrong with your 30-06SPRG. A 180gr bullet in the 30-06 has more energy at 500 yards than a typical 170gr bullet in 30-30 at 100 yards and the latter is the standard by which all other calibers for North American hunting are measured for distances up to 150yards.(and at that range, the 30-06 still has more energy at ~650yards) If the shooter is up to the task, then some hardware upgrade will be in order particularly in the reloading department to achieve the accuracy necessary. For perspective I shot a match using a 2.5-10X Leopold Mk4 shooting ~5.5" discs at 600m. When you encounter a game animal under 100 yards, (especially moving) higher magnification will be a curse.

Adding Africa to the equation though you get caliber restrictions often historically being ~375 H&H for some countries: These could have changed the past few years though with the popularity of calibers like 9.3X62 and 338 LM.

Either way, don't let anyone stop you from buying another rifle... there is one for every occasion ;) and it's more enjoyable when you don't have to compromise.
 
Thanks for your insight New Camper,

Here is a question that I have been thinking about as it relates to my 30-06: I shoot 165 grain out of it because it seems to prefer that Gr. In your opinion, what would be the maximum effective shooting distance of it for moose and elk?

New Camper said:
There's nothing wrong with your 30-06SPRG. A 180gr bullet in the 30-06 has more energy at 500 yards than a typical 170gr bullet in 30-30 at 100 yards and the latter is the standard by which all other calibers for North American hunting are measured for distances up to 150yards.(and at that range, the 30-06 still has more energy at ~650yards) If the shooter is up to the task, then some hardware upgrade will be in order particularly in the reloading department to achieve the accuracy necessary. For perspective I shot a match using a 2.5-10X Leopold Mk4 shooting ~5.5" discs at 600m. When you encounter a game animal under 100 yards, (especially moving) higher magnification will be a curse.

Adding Africa to the equation though you get caliber restrictions often historically being ~375 H&H for some countries: These could have changed the past few years though with the popularity of calibers like 9.3X62 and 338 LM.

Either way, don't let anyone stop you from buying another rifle... there is one for every occasion ;) and it's more enjoyable when you don't have to compromise.
Click to expand...
 
You've been given ample information about how to come to that conclusion on your own which leads me to believe you should seriously rethink 1000 yard's at this point in time.

How can anyone answer that for you without you providing the type of bullet and muzzle velocity?

huntingsask said:
Thanks for your insight New Camper,

Here is a question that I have been thinking about as it relates to my 30-06: I shoot 165 grain out of it because it seems to prefer that Gr. In your opinion, what would be the maximum effective shooting distance of it for moose and elk?
Click to expand...
 
Ok! This is the data I found on the internet with the shells I have been shooting for years. After view the data, I do not think that shooting at anything over 450 yards would be appropriate, which is precisely why I am buying my new rifle. Based on the information below, I do not believe that a 30-06 should be used for any long range shots on game!

As for shooting at 1000 yards on game, I never said that was my objective, just want to have the right rifle that has minimum of 1800 fps at 1000 yards and I would enjoy practicing with it on steel.

In real life situations the vast majority of my shots on game has been under 200 yards, my longest shot on game was approx. 450 yards.

Cartridge: 30-06 Springfield
Bullet Weight: 165
Muzzle Velocity: 2800
Ballistic Co-efficient: 0.341

Rifle Ballistics: Distance(yds) / Velocity(fps) / Energy(ft.lbs.) / Traj.Short / Traj.Long

Muzzle 2800 2872

50 -0.1
100 2536 2355 0 2.0
200 2286 1915 -3.9 0
300 2051 1541 -14.5 -8.6
400 1831 1228 -33.4 -25.6
500 1627 970 -53.0


.284 said:
You've been given ample information about how to come to that conclusion on your own which leads me to believe you should seriously rethink 1000 yard's at this point in time.

How can anyone answer that for you without you providing the type of bullet and muzzle velocity?
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
For clarity and lightness don't overlook swarovski optiks. the Z5 or better yet Z6 series are great. If you like the optics but not the price, you can find equal glass in Meopta scopes for almost 1/2 the price. If you don't wear glasses, you will be hard pressed to find clearer glass. If you do wear glasses, then you have to really find the right scope company and stick with it. glass refracts light differently and glasses wearers and non glasses wearers really do need different glass, its a bigger issue than folks realize.

As for long range guns, keep in mind every cartridge, without exception, is a compromise. You will have to give up something to get something, which means you cannot pick the perfect cartridge. Just pick the one that fits most of your criteria, buy it and shoot it.

For me its 300wm , and if I need bigger its the 338lm.
 
Not going to read all the 8 pages but based on your original question I vote for the 7mm Rem Mag which I think is a pretty good choice for North America . I am sure it has been mentioned numerous times already! Good Luck.
(I also like the 375H&H and if you think it will be suitable for the type of game you intend to hunt in Africa -- would get a BRNO ZKK 602 in that calibre.)
 
Would you happen to know what the fps is at 1000 yards with your 300wm?

Thanks for the info on the scopes I will certainly check them out for sure!

dizzy said:
For clarity and lightness don't overlook swarovski optiks. the Z5 or better yet Z6 series are great. If you like the optics but not the price, you can find equal glass in Meopta scopes for almost 1/2 the price. If you don't wear glasses, you will be hard pressed to find clearer glass. If you do wear glasses, then you have to really find the right scope company and stick with it. glass refracts light differently and glasses wearers and non glasses wearers really do need different glass, its a bigger issue than folks realize.

As for long range guns, keep in mind every cartridge, without exception, is a compromise. You will have to give up something to get something, which means you cannot pick the perfect cartridge. Just pick the one that fits most of your criteria, buy it and shoot it.

For me its 300wm , and if I need bigger its the 338lm.
Click to expand...
 
huntingsask said:
After reading all of the posts, I was wondering if anyone has had a gun smith (located in Western Canada) build their long range rifle, and if so in what caliber and by who? Thanks
Click to expand...

I've got long range builds from Craige Douglas (AC Douglas, Saskatoon), Ted Gaillard (Pathlo Saskatchewan), and Corlanes out of Dawson. My favorite (Long range) isn't Canadian, but is a BAT actioned .338 built by Shawn Carlock of Defensive Edge Idaho. Calibers include 7 STW, .300 Win, 300 RUM, .338 Edge and .375 Cheytac. Actions include Remington, Winchester, Sako, BAT and Stiller. Barrels run to Gaillard, Hart, Lilja, Benchmark, Bevin King and probably some others that I've over-looked. Brand doesn't matter much, they can all make good barrels, and the factories crank out some good ones too. Its not going to around long if you are focussing on one rifle anyway. There are plenty of factory rifles with not be the weak link in the rifle/load/optics/shootersystem.

There's a old target shooter's saying that explains how beginners talk about guns, experienced shooters talk about loads and the winners talk about wind. There isn't a rifle that can't be made to shoot like crap with bad ammo, and not that many that can't be brought up to a higher level with good handloads. There isn't a rifle/load combo that will fix a bad wind call, but some will help out.

You could do a lot worse that just buying a Sendero, Mark 4 or Nightforce, a reloading starter kit and a SPRA membership. Shoot it until it begs for mercy and the reloading supply people all know you by name.
 
FWIW..

As one African PH and writer put it recently, shooting at game at such ranges isn't hunting, it's just killing. I've noticed that there's a marked increase in the realm of professional gun/hunting writers speaking out against this, as so they should, and good on them.

My first rule of hunting ethics is, if I can't reasonably assure a clean kill, I don't take the shot. IOW, I don't need to kill something so bad, I don't care if it's the next B&C world record, that I'm going to disrespect wildlife in such a manner.

I've had the experience of shooting a moose, twice, at about 60 yards with a 30.06, and a bull elk at about 50 yards with a 300 WM, in both instances the animal didn't even so much as flinch, to the extent that I thought I missed clean. Both finally toppled where they stood. Now, imagine trying to gauge a hit or miss at 800 yards.

What all those YouTube vids don't show are the ones that took one in the guts, and walked off into the timber, never to be seen again, except as grizzly bait. And how many actually traverse that 800 + yards of swamp/bog/canyon to check for blood? I suspect too few.

From everything I've ever read, I'd suggest that a great many African PHs, where 250 yards is generally considered a long shot, would not have any part of such "sport"...and I use that term loosely.

As if our heritage and tradition of hunting/shooting sports haven't taken enough of a hit over the last several decades, now we indulge in such nonsense that makes all of us look even more so like weekend warrior/sniper wannabes.

Shooting at targets/gongs at 1000 yards is one thing, and definitely implies skill.

Flinging lead at live animals at such ranges is entirely another.

IMHO.
 
hoytcanon said:
Then don't shoot... NOT squeezing the trigger is sometimes the responsible choice... and there is always another day... and even if there were never another opportunity to take that particular animal or species, the memory of almost getting the shot should be far more pleasant than the memory of wounding and losing a fine animal.
Click to expand...
I never suggested wounding and losing the animal, you are the one who continues to post that end to every scenario when long range hunting comes up.

Maybe this works for you and your skill set, however it is time to consider some peoples skills are above and beyond your comfort lever
 
sir_springer,

that is fair post and interesting to see that added in the discussion.

when i started to hunt in Europe we were taught and instructed not to shoot over 300m and most of the hunting districts didnt allow you to shoot pass 200m.

that doesnt mean we were not trained to shoot at longer distance. but that was the way it was done.

when i was in the army we learnt to over pass those limits with a fix 3.75 and 4.75 with a wooden stock and obsolete caliber before using the 308 win.

the materials and tools evolved too and now are available easily but that doesnt mean anybody will become an expert despite 3 shows we can watch on the cable.

when i was guiding for caribou i had some guys and some shows that wanted to do that but i disagreed due to the no need of feeding wolves and bears, if you are able to bring a bow hunter at a shooting distance there is no need to shoot over the limit with a rifle.

that costs me some game for sure but as im still not starving, a nice moose is certainly still grazing for being at 320m and another one at 290 ...

to each is own.

better than an huskemaw i will dig into bushnell they are made at the same place and i will say highly words on bushnell especially on the elite or tactical branch.

my little two cents of the day.
 
I thought "Princess" was topped with your beloved Huskemaw. So was it your rifle you shot the offhand pie plates at 500 or your friends.

In the words of Iago, "Things are not as they seem."
 
medvedqc...

Once, many years back, my partner and I topped at prairie ridge and spotted a whitetail buck crossing a stubble field below us, unaware of our presence. I moved down the hill about 40 yards, and went prone with my 25.06 on a Harris bipod. It was slowly walking, angling away slightly to the right. I figured it a stretch, held a foot over its back, led on his nose, and sent a 117 gr. Sierra Gameking. It seemed to buckle on its front shoulder, and then promptly hit for the tree-line. My partner yelled, you got 'em!!!

Short version, after two hours of tracking, I found it bedded, and finished the job.

The appearance of buckling on his front shoulder was because the bullet struck its rear leg just above the hock, and was still lodged in the offside hide, indicating how little energy it had left in it.

In the time it took for me to shoot and the bullet to arrive, walking slowly, the buck moved forward about five feet. The bullet dropped about three feet.

When I went back and paced it off, it took me 560 steps.

I swore then I'd never do something rash (and dumb as hell) like that ever again...and I haven't.

Military snipers train like hell, and keep a record of every single shot they ever take in practice. They know their weapon and its capabilities intimately, in every sense of the word. They look for a kill, but will settle for a hit, as the net effect is basically the same: Enemy down.

That's not the case with game animals.
 
hoytcanon said:
I don't think there is a better selection of .338 bullets compared to .30 cal bullets... not any place I shop... Hornady lists five pages of .30 cal bullet options compared to two pages of .338 bullets.
Click to expand...

Sorry, not a bigger selection, but the selection has better BC's than 30 cal.

A 250 grain Lapua Scenar in 338 has a G7 of 0.322. A 185 grain 308 has a G7 of 0.242.

If the guy is really wanting to hunt at long range he should be trying to minimize the effects of wind drift as much as possible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom