Original load for Hawken rifles?

Ol' Flinter

Ol' Flinter

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I have read several places that the original
Hawken sights were zeroed for 125 yd. But the powder charge has not been mentioned. My interest is for a 54 cal and I would guess 100 or 120 gr of FFg but would like to know so I can set mine up accordingly.
 
Just going from vague memory of things I read years ago, I think you are in the ballpark of not on the light side.

Might depend on powder availability and the area a hunter is in but back in the days when bison were plentiful and wolves and grizzly bears roamed far out onto the plains I know I would try to be sure I wasn't caught undergunned!
 
You should ask on the appropriate muzzle loading sites.

I have seen charges as high as 200 grains in the old literature.

The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle, by Ned H. Roberts, page 101, list the following formula;

The formula is 3 grains powder to each 7 grains of ball weight. Both measures by weight.

The closest example on page 101 is = 18 balls per pound for 60 caliber is 85 grains of powder. ( The powder type, FFg, etc., is not mentioned )

For trail walks, in a .54 caliber Hawken, I used 40 or 50 grains by volume and a water wet, 1.5" cleaning patch for the patch.
 
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I'm thinking something got mixed up between that formula and that example - 18 balls per pound (7,000 grains) is 388.89 grains each ball. Divide by 7 is 55.56. Multiply by 3 grains is 167 grains of powder (?)
 
Potashminer said:
I'm thinking something got mixed up between that formula and that example - 18 balls per pound (7,000 grains) is 388.89 grains each ball. Divide by 7 is 55.56. Multiply by 3 grains is 167 grains of powder (?)
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A 54 cal ball is 230 gr. so by that formula the load should be 99 gr of FFg. That is a light hunting load for griz and bison but okay for deer. 60 gr is my target load so am thinking 120 would be about right. I suspect many loaded as hot as acceptable accuracy would allow.
 
Your best option - check the load charts:

https://goexpowder.com/resources/load-charts/

As far as "original" well,........ with variations in barrels, makers and powders 'back in the day' I would consider such data as "historical interest" only - if it is a 'need to know' call the hawken shop.

Today we have known and consistent components.

Find a charge that is consistent for your rifle at the range you plan to use it at (the most) then file your sights to zero it.
 
Buy a copy of the old lyman black powder book, not in print anymore that iv seen. But it is the bible from cap n ball to the bess and all in between. Plus the pictures are great, seeing all the 1970s styles, and recomendation on hunting in africa. Check out the gun shows the books cover is black and yellow 8x11.5
 
I’ve carried my .54 hunting, but haven’t been successful yet with it. I seem to always see animals far away when I have a close range tool and close up when I have a long range one.

I’ve loaded up to 120gr pyrodex rifle behind a patched round ball. Books say that should be somewhere close to 2000 FPS with a 230gr. Sounds like it would work to me, that’s almost a .444.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
A 54 cal ball is 230 gr. so by that formula the load should be 99 gr of FFg. That is a light hunting load for griz and bison but okay for deer. 60 gr is my target load so am thinking 120 would be about right. I suspect many loaded as hot as acceptable accuracy would allow.
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I think range plus hard or soft balls would enter into the equation. For grizzly or buffalo, I think you would want hardened balls to make sure that they penetrated far enough. I am reminded of Gordon Cummings book on elephant hunting with a muzzle loading 10 guage shotgun. He apparently used hardened balls and while he did not comment on how deeply they penetrated, it seemed to contrast with Val Forgett who shot an elephant with a double 4 guage (I think) and the ball only penetrated a couple of feet, as I recall.

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
I think range plus hard or soft balls would enter into the equation. For grizzly or buffalo, I think you would want hardened balls to make sure that they penetrated far enough. I am reminded of Gordon Cummings book on elephant hunting with a muzzle loading 10 guage shotgun. He apparently used hardened balls and while he did not comment on how deeply they penetrated, it seemed to contrast with Val Forgett who shot an elephant with a double 4 guage (I think) and the ball only penetrated a couple of feet, as I recall.

cheers mooncoon
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On a similar note was it not edit: John Taylor in the late 1930s Transvaal his Kynoch ammo shipment became lost prior to elephant hunting?

He purchased a single barrel muzzleloading 10 gauge fowler and mold off an old fellow.

He then harvested several tuskers successfully, early morning ambush at a watering hole.
 
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A friend that builds beautiful flintlocks was once a diehard "Hawken" fan. He regularly shot his own build rifles with 120 grs of powder, usually with .62 calibre bores.

He developed a shoulder problem over the years and can't shoot his .50 Alaskan Sharps Business Rifle without flinching badly. Now he's stepped down to the 45-70 and quite happy with it.
 
Powder granulation, manufacturer and composition could all vary enough to throw any sight setting applied by the gunmaker to be off. I'm willing to bet that the gun maker MAY have set up each one to use a specific load of whatever powder he used.

I would think it was done with the first of a run of identical specs and whatever sight settings were applied to subsequent ones. Pretty involved to fire and fine tune sights for every gun made but, maybe they did. I have read of gun makers supplying a quantity of powder with the gun.
 
Doug, For my .54's I use 95 gr @ 100 so 110 to 120 at 125 is not unreasonable. As you know file sights accordingly. I looked in the Hawken Rifle Book again but no mention. Only thing was that western men found the eastern front sight to short in length and changed them out.

Get hold of Greg at The Hawken Shop in Oak Harbor WA. He most likely may know your answer.....360-679-4657. Take care my friend.
 
Thanks Tex. I think what I will do is try some groups with 5 gr increments from 100 gr 2F to 120 gr and settle on whatever is most accurate then zero my fixed sights for 125 yd. With the 36" barrel I can easily burn that much powder.
 
Many years ago when I was young and foolish and competing in BP .I decided I needed a left handed Hawken rifle for the offhand side of things.
Well it turned out that left hand hawken's were other than full custom guns impossible to get. So being a bit short of that kind of cash , no problem I'll just build my own. So after many hours with chisels ,files , drills , sandpaper and sweat I came up wit a pretty good copy of a Hawken. Where I made my mistake was I should have put some temporary sights on it and try it out. But no, I put many hours it to filling out a perfect set of Hawken sights. When it came time to shoot it I found it was shooting to low . I filled off the front sight until if I cut it off any more It would not show up properly . So then I started pouring in more FF until it shot on. I suspect that is what the old boys would do.As I recall 160 grs. of FF worked just fine. I had some good times travelling around to Camrose, Tofield, Hinton ,Edmonton, Athabasca, Saskatoon ,Regina and Moosejaw shooting BP competition. I have tried to sell that rifle but it seems there is no market for a left hand Hawken.
 
What barrel twist have you got? I have a 1/48 twist .54 Lyman Trade rifle that shoots deadly accurate with 40 - 50 grains of FF with a .535 ball and a .018 patch. Same with my TC .45. If your just shooting paper you probably won't need big charges.
 
Brutus said:
On a similar note was it not edit: John Taylor in the late 1930s Transvaal his Kynoch ammo shipment became lost prior to elephant hunting?

He purchased a single barrel muzzleloading 10 gauge fowler and mold off an old fellow.

He then harvested several tuskers successfully, early morning ambush at a watering hole.
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Somewhere I have a copy of Gordon Cummings book and without looking it up, he hunted roughly in the 1850s or 60s. He hunted on horseback and would ride up beside a stampeding elephant if my memory is correct. Somewhere else I ran across a reference to how much powder, lead, and I think tin he took on his expedition which last about 2 years. He shot elephants for ivory, rhinos for their horns

cheers mooncoon
 
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