original nazi flag

Talquin: I'm still trying to figure that one out, myself!

The problem is ignorance, when you get right down to it. What people "know" might be what they "know".... but it's not always true.

We need to inform ourselves first, THEN make comments. I waited until well after I was 60 to even make a comment on CGN.... just in case I made a fool out of myself by passing along incorrect information. (Come to think on it, I've DONE that a few times.... but I TRY not to.)

Hey, everybody: next time you've got 10 bucks to spare, head down to your local second-hand bookstore and buy yourself a non-fiction book that you wouldn't buy if it were full-retail price. Then read it. Surprising how much good stuff is out there.
Then buy yourself another gun book!

See you at the range!
 
The Giant said:
Believe it or not it is possible to own pieces of WW2 nazi history and not be a racist s**tbag.
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I agree.

I own an original copy of Mein Kampf. Does this make me one of the aforementioned racist s**tbags? Absolutely not! I have it because it is an important piece of history, and is very collectible.

And FYI, I haven't read it, and have no real interest in reading it.
 
Anyone who doesn't like big bucks is worse than a Nazi.

The first I'll take it with a wad of cash gets that flag.
 
Recce21 said:
It's funny that you should mention that. Japan committed far greater atrocities (in magnitude and number) than Nazi Germany did (The Rape of Nanking anyone?).
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Good - I'm glad someone picked up on this. I left that hanging out to see if anyone would bite. Sorry, I'm a bad person.
 
Recce21 said:
It's funny that you should mention that. Japan committed far greater atrocities (in magnitude and number) than Nazi Germany did (The Rape of Nanking anyone?). I own several books on Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan war crimes and the Japanese book is much bigger than the German one! I wonder why Nazi Germany takes all the heat and nations such as Japan and the Soviet Union under equally as terrible ass hats as Hitler get side noted.

As well, I also find it funny (not ha ha but disgusting) that you see clothes and shoes that are marketed for young children and young adults emblazoned with the Rising Sun. No different than having clothing with the NDSAP flag on it worn by 6 year olds. I wonder why it is that it is socially acceptable and expected to be gun shy of the Nazi Swastika but not the Rising Sun or Union Jack (which I have had Scottish friends call the Butcher's Apron by the way).
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There's no denying that the Japanese did some awful things, but they didn't commit a genocide against 6 million people.

Of course the fact that the Jews will never let anyone forget it has kept it at the forefront, but that doesn't mean you should minimize it.

The Japanese book may be thicker, but it's not like its a list of names now is it?

People do get offended by the Rising Sun, especially in China and Korea who suffered at the hand of Imperial Japan.




This forum has an overwhelming tendency to pontificate about things it knows nothing about.
 
Claybuster said:
There's a big difference. A Luger, bayonet or rifle are not of themselves symbolic and are less likely to be interpreted as support for the regime and the Nazi philosphy. They are inanimate objects than can be put to practical use.

Unlike a flag they do not signify a statement of association with the Nazis and Hitler. Buying a replica Zyklon "B" container, tattooing SS lightning bolts on your arm or putting up a Nazi flag in your basement can be regarded as reflecting more than just being a "collector" of historical artifacts.
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You are one seriously messed up individual who needs some help. Did a Nazi beat you up as a kid? Seriously, if they did, I am genuinely sorry, but that does not make everything that is part of that era, evil. It definitely does not make people who collect those historical artifacts evil either.

You come here to the milsurp forum and by extension insult probably a good 30-40 % is not more of the guys who frequent this particular forum and who are avid collectors of military firearms and gear.

Now let's talk about Lugers. If I have a choice between a pristine Luger made say around 1940, and one that is exactly the same pristine shape but had the German marks punched and obliterated. Which one would I pick? Without hesitation, the pristine, untouched one. Does that make my a Nazi?

I also have a very nice Mosin Nagant collection. I guess that makes me a communist as well. BTW, for those that know me, the last thing I would ever be called is a lover of those murderous ( I speak from family experience on that one) savages over in Russia.

So I guess I am a Nazi, Facist-Communist skin head. Thanks!

Sounds like you are trolling to stir it up. :rolleyes:
 
Light Infantry said:
You are one seriously messed up individual who needs some help. Did a Nazi beat you up as a kid? Seriously, if they did, I am genuinely sorry, but that does not make everything that is part of that era, evil. It definitely does not make people who collect those historical artifacts evil either.

You come here to the milsurp forum and by extension insult probably a good 30-40 % is not more of the guys who frequent this particular forum and who are avid collectors of military firearms and gear.

Now let's talk about Lugers. If I have a choice between a pristine Luger made say around 1940, and one that is exactly the same pristine shape but had the German marks punched and obliterated. Which one would I pick? Without hesitation, the pristine, untouched one. Does that make my a Nazi?

I also have a very nice Mosin Nagant collection. I guess that makes me a communist as well. BTW, for those that know me, the last thing I would ever be called is a lover of those murderous ( I speak from family experience on that one) savages over in Russia.

So I guess I am a Nazi, Facist-Communist skin head. Thanks!

Sounds like you are trolling to stir it up. :rolleyes:
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Can you read? He was refuting what someone else said about Nazi weapons having the same negative connotations of flags. In short, he was agreeing with you.
 
TOScout said:
Can you read? He was refuting what someone else said about Nazi weapons having the same negative connotations of flags. In short, he was agreeing with you.
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I can read, you obviously cannot comprehend at all:


Claybuster said:
There's a big difference. A Luger, bayonet or rifle are not of themselves symbolic and are less likely to be interpreted as support for the regime and the Nazi philosphy. They are inanimate objects than can be put to practical use.

Unlike a flag they do not signify a statement of association with the Nazis and Hitler. Buying a replica Zyklon "B" container, tattooing SS lightning bolts on your arm or putting up a Nazi flag in your basement can be regarded as reflecting more than just being a "collector" of historical artifacts.
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Yup, it's clear he is agreeing.:rolleyes:

The other poster was saying that the flag is no more harmful (as a symbol) than a Luger or a bayonet.

Re-reading the posts, it is quite obvious that this whole discussion is completely over your head, since you couldn't even interpret the 2 posters' threads properly and took away the exact opposite meaning of their statement and position in the discussion.

Crisco 1 said it best:
Crisco 1 said:
Wow there are some big steps here from collecting militaria for the sake of it and running a skin head organization......
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TOScout said:
There's no denying that the Japanese did some awful things, but they didn't commit a genocide against 6 million people.

Of course the fact that the Jews will never let anyone forget it has kept it at the forefront, but that doesn't mean you should minimize it.

The Japanese book may be thicker, but it's not like its a list of names now is it?

People do get offended by the Rising Sun, especially in China and Korea who suffered at the hand of Imperial Japan.

This forum has an overwhelming tendency to pontificate about things it knows nothing about.
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Here's some reading for you regarding the Japanese and their "awful things"....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_War_Crimes

I'll quote a small paragraph:

"R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, states that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. "This democide was due to a morally bankrupt political and military strategy, military expediency and custom, and national culture."[22] According to Rummel, in China alone, during 1937-45, approximately 3.9 million Chinese were killed, mostly civilians, as a direct result of the Japanese operations and 10.2 millions in the course of the war.[23] The most infamous incident during this period was the Nanking Massacre of 1937-38, when, according to the findings of the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, the Japanese Army massacred as many as 300,000 civilians and prisoners of war, although the accepted figure is somewhere in the hundreds of thousands.[24] A similar crime was the Changjiao massacre. In Southeast Asia, the Manila massacre, resulted in the deaths of 100,000 civilians in the Philippines and in the Sook Ching massacre, between 25,000 and 50,000 ethnic Chinese in Singapore were taken to beaches and massacred. There were numerous other massacres of civilians e.g. the Kalagong massacre."

If that's not genocide, then I don't know what is.

Wonderful thing, this internet, isn't it?
 
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TOScout said:
Then why did you quote his post, and not the post that he was quoting. That's the bit that doesn't make any sense.
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Sigh....here it is:

burnt45 said:
The flag is no different than a Nazi marked Luger, bayonet, rifle..... I wouldn't pass up an authentic one either if the price was right..... it's got nothing to do with politics.

... it's called COLLECTING, and if we burn that, we're no better than the book-burner himself.
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and the rebuttal (again):

Claybuster said:
There's a big difference. A Luger, bayonet or rifle are not of themselves symbolic and are less likely to be interpreted as support for the regime and the Nazi philosphy. They are inanimate objects than can be put to practical use.

Unlike a flag they do not signify a statement of association with the Nazis and Hitler. Buying a replica Zyklon "B" container, tattooing SS lightning bolts on your arm or putting up a Nazi flag in your basement can be regarded as reflecting more than just being a "collector" of historical artifacts.
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I hope that clears it up.
 
Claybuster said:
The OP asked on a gun site what the value was of a Nazi flag. Last time I checked this isn't a flag site or a Nazi site
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Relax, a lot of non firearm related topics show up on the milsurp forums. The milsurp forums are read by a lot of knowledgeable people and collectors, many of which are interested in militaria outside of firearms.
 
ArtyMan said:
Relax, a lot of non firearm related topics show up on the milsurp forums. The milsurp forums are read by a lot of knowledgeable people and collectors, many of which are interested in militaria outside of firearms.
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I totally agree with you.

Now is this a party flag of the NSDAP or a Third Reich battle ensign ?
 
Have it appraised for sure... And for all you trolls, why don't you quit trying to lecture the milsurp guys/collectors , and go cry over at Stormfront :rolleyes:
 
angrysoldier said:
clay, im felling some anger from you. but not every german was a nazi. most were soldiers doing a job and that was it. the pope was a nazi! ive met a few former german soldiers some who even won the iron cross, and in the same nursing home i volenteer at is a lady who still wears her tatoo number on her arm. the war is over and ive never met a skin head or white power type in my life. im pretty sure those people are hiding in thier basements, not working and collecting welfare. i dont think we have to worry about them too much.
my biggest problem is that people still to this day relate that flag to hate, the hate has been over for 60 years. we have to let go of the hate and remember the total picture and the lives that were lost during the war. but we cannot ever forget that a man with a burning hot case of little man started it all and that is it.
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THANK YOU! I have relatives that wore swastikas on their uniforms and served under a swastika emblazoned banner. Not because they believed in extermination of a race but because they wanted to serve their country as millions of young men from the allied side did as well. Just because their leader was a complete lunatic ass hat does not make their sacrifice any less than the victor.

I collect "nazi" memorabilia because I have a great reverence for those that served in the German army (not the inhumane sadistic asshats mind you). Same as someone on here who collects Russian/Canadian/American/Aussie memorabilia because they have a direct connection.

BTW, those former "nazi scum" were the kindest, most giving people you would ever meet. You would never even know they had fired a shot in anger in their life.
 
Wow, the arrogant and condescending attitude from some of the posters is shocking (although consistent).

I collect WWII memorabilia. As the participants of WWII also includes the Germans, there are undoubtedly swastikas showing up here or there.

Claybuster's idea of history is to erase what was "bad" about it. You know, completely defeating the purpose of history itself. Pathetic.
 
I agree, Recce! I had family members and direct relatives that served on the Eastern front. They may have worn the uniform but I'm sure they did not believe all the propaganda being spoon fed to them from the Reichstag. It pains me when I see someone use the term "nazi" to describe all Germans during that time period (I have even run into people who use it to describe WW1 German vets and that really offends my family heritage) in plain ignorance without thinking of the common soldier or civilian. Enough said on my part, I'm tired of putting up the same argument time and time again.

Let us worry about the collector value of that flag instead. Do you have pictures of the flag ? Ink stamps can sometimes be found that indicate manufacture or even units if it is a NSDAP or SA flag.
 
DASQ said:
Claybuster's idea of history is to erase what was "bad" about it. You know, completely defeating the purpose of history itself. Pathetic.
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Not really. The people who are erasing what is bad are the neo-nazis who deny what was bad and believe it was right. They are the ones who worship Hitler, attempt to revise history and would relive history given the opportunity.

Not surprising is that the usual defences come up quickly in discussions like this. Not all Germans were Nazis, we are remembering history so we won't repeat it, the swastika has a long history, many Germans didn't have a choice, other regimes did worse, blah, blah, blah.

What is surprising is the reaction of people who claim to have had family who served for the German military during WWII. They don't seem the slightest bit troubled that the flags and symbols their family members fought and died under are being used today by those who would want to bring back the horror their relatives lived under. Lest we forget.

My two points remain. The value of Nazi artifacts is driven up by demand from the hatemongers and revisionists who worship Hitler and the Nazi concept of a pure race and that gunowners don't do themselves any favours by showing an undue fascination with Nazi items beyond firearms.

My points having been made I don't intend to prolong the discussion further.
 
Claybuster said:
What is surprising is the reaction of people who claim to have had family who served for the German military during WWII. They don't seem the slightest bit troubled that the flags and symbols their family members fought and died under are being used today by those who would want to bring back the horror their relatives lived under. Lest we forget.
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It's no claim, it's true. I have relatives that fought on both sides (Canadian and German). Ironic that both sides came home with war trophies off dead enemies. For all I know, they could have been shooting at each other at some point (although highly unlikely).
 
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