Our Non restricted lower and the DA50 upper Pics added May 4 2105

[alberta tactical rifle]

The good folks at Canada Ammo have brought out a 50 BMG BOLT ACTION SINGLE SHOT upper designed to fit an AR15 lower, similar I suspect to the Feret or safety Harbor 50 cal upper.
Ofcourse this then becomes a restricted firearm.
6 or 7 years ago ATRS came up with a NON restricted lower that with a minor irreversible modification to the BOLT ACTION SINGLE SHOT 50 BMG upper makes the entire rifle NON restricted.
We have had a flurry of inquiries since Canada Ammo released their DA50 and so far the best answer to whether our lower will work has been maybe.
I just ordered a DA50 from Ryan, with the plan of making certain this is possible which frankly I believe is 99.9% possible but want to make certain.
Stand by for further intel.

 

[Suther]

Wait a minute...Do you have a non-restricted lower that will make a standard 5.56 AR non-restricted, or are we still stuck with the barrel length issue?

What he said!!!!!

Single shot lower. I assume if you want to permanently modify your upper than yeah, you can probably have a single shot whatever-caliber-you-want, but these were designed for use with 50-cal uppers that are from the US. ATRS is currently working on verifying whether they will work with the new DA-50 upper that Canada Ammo just released.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Based on what we did for the Ferret and Safety Harbor 50 cal uppers, to marry the upper to our lower requires a minor modification to the upper that is permanent and makes it dedicated to our lower only, it will never work with any AR15 lower once the modification is done. This is what gives it the NON restricted legal classification.
The lower with the upper modifications is $750.00, a number of the small parts from a standard LPK are also required, but I suspect $50.00 will cover all of them. The DA50 apparently comes with a proprietary hammer, which makes sense as standard mil type hammers and springs do not have enough mass to set of the 50 cal primers.
A standard buffer tube and some sort of AR stock and grip will also be required to make the unit useful, these are common and can be purchased almost everywhere AR parts can be found.
From experience I would suggest something like an A2 or PRS or something fixed along those lines rather than a collapsible stock.

Depending on demand we may run a production run of our lower.
We need to rewrite the programs as the original was stolen along with a ton of other stuff in 2010 so we are looking at a few months before we have lowers available.

Again I want to stress the fact that until I receive the DA50 upper I purchased and can confirm that the 1 lower we have in stock will in fact work out, some patience would be appreciated. as soon as I can determine that we can for a fact make this happen I will post the results, and a photo.

THIS LOWER WILL NOT WORK WITH A STANDARD AR15 IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Is the modification to the upper a DIY project or will it need to be send to you for the modifications?
If it needs to be shipped to you for modifications is there the possibility that you will offer a package with the upper and your lower with the modifications already completed?

It is NOT a DIY project so yes the upper will have to come here for the mods.
Once we KNOW that what we make fits the DA50 upper, I will talk further with Ryan as to how we can proceed to make this simple and painless.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Maybe I don't understand:

The upper is irrelevant to classification. Doesn't matter if the upper is .17HMR or 20mm antiaircraft cannon. The stripped lower is the gun even without parts kit/stock/fire control group installed.

The AR15 & variants are restricted by name. Modify an AR15 so that it shoots rainbows and sunshine, it is still restricted.

So what could you possibly do to the upper OR lower which makes it no longer an "AR15 or variant"?

Not saying this to be a jerk - just genuinely curious.

FF

It is NOT caliber related at all , you are correct.
It is NR as it is not compatible with an AR upper, even when an AR upper is "duct taped" to the lower as the RCMP tried to do on this lower, unsuccessfully I might add.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

Do you have any photos of the lowers you developed on the other two rifles?

It is the same lower for both, but along with the CNC programs, the photos are MIA.
We have 1 lower still that I will be trying and once we know will probably post a photo.

 

[polskiogorki]

Sorry if I am being obtuse - the AR lower itself is restricted, even if there is NO upper, right? I am still confused how you got a non-restricted FRT designation for an AR lower, even if it cannot take an AR upper.

FF

If it can't take an AR upper then its not an AR lower,.. that's why its non restricted

 

[H Wally]

Maybe I don't understand:

The upper is irrelevant to classification. Doesn't matter if the upper is .17HMR or 20mm antiaircraft cannon. The stripped lower is the gun even without parts kit/stock/fire control group installed.

The AR15 & variants are restricted by name. Modify an AR15 so that it shoots rainbows and sunshine, it is still restricted.

So what could you possibly do to the upper OR lower which makes it no longer an "AR15 or variant"?

Not saying this to be a jerk - just genuinely curious.

FF

This' my reading on it - ATRS please correct me if I'm wrong:

It's based on the fact that the non-gun parts (upper) have to be extensively and permanently modified to fit to the lower. Since the lower isn't dimensionally identical to any guns known as AR-15's and can't attach to non-gun yet dimensionally correct-or-an-ar15 uppers, they aren't ar-15's.

It's weird circular logic that only works if you look at it a certain way. The RCMP said it was ok, so it's ok.

 

[wheels]

I don't know what convoluted logic the RCMP uses, but my understanding was that a restricted-by-name classification cannot be undone. This is different than say, a shotgun having its barrel cut down to less than 470mm/18.5" goes from Non-restricted to Restricted. Replace the barrel with a 26" barrel and it is magically non-restricted again.

I suppose the difference would be if it started out as an AR-15 lower which was then modified or if was made from an 80% lower and machined from there. Machined from an 80%, the lower was never an AR lower so the restriction by name wouldn't apply.

For those saying that it's not an AR-15 because it can't take an upper, I have a hard time wrapping my head around it that 'the gun' is no longer 'the gun' because it can't take what the RCMP views as an accessory. Logically, that's like saying you don't have an AR-15 because Surefires mount to AR's and this gun can't accept a Surefire. Maybe I am crazy.

Whatever, I hope I am wrong...

FF

My take on it is that it's not an AR lower, period.

Not by design, not by name, not by royal assent by the queen mother herself, etc..

Just like the lower on the modern hunter is not an AR lower, nor is the lower of an AR-180b a restricted AR lower.. they just aren't the same thing.

 

[H Wally]

I don't know what convoluted logic the RCMP uses, but my understanding was that a restricted-by-name classification cannot be undone. This is different than say, a shotgun having its barrel cut down to less than 470mm/18.5" goes from Non-restricted to Restricted. Replace the barrel with a 26" barrel and it is magically non-restricted again.

I suppose the difference would be if it started out as an AR-15 lower which was then modified or if was made from an 80% lower and machined from there. Machined from an 80%, the lower was never an AR lower so the restriction by name wouldn't apply.

For those saying that it's not an AR-15 because it can't take an upper, I have a hard time wrapping my head around it that 'the gun' is no longer 'the gun' because it can't take what the RCMP views as an accessory. Logically, that's like saying you don't have an AR-15 because Surefires mount to AR's and this gun can't accept a Surefire. Maybe I am crazy.

Whatever, I hope I am wrong...

FF

The ATRS lower was never an AR15, so it's never been tainted by naming. The DA-50 upper is not a firearm, so it can't be named, therefore it can be modified, altered etc... think of it like a scope - mounting it on a .22 or an AR doesn't make it a 22 or AR, it makes it a part mounted onto the firearm, but does not retain the classification of the firearm once removed, because only the receiver (lower on an ar) is the firearm.

 

[8 ball]

As it stands now, the DA-50 is a AR-15 upper.

Once the DA-50 upper is modified to no longer accept a AR-15 lower, it is no longer a AR-15 upper.

It is then mated with the new Alberta Tactical NR lower.

Simple.

This guy gets it!!

 

[tootall]

Rick,

Two separate thoughts/suggestions:

I have no idea what you did to your NR lower, but after studying the upper I borrowed from Chris, I came up with a possible solution.
The upper gets a couple of blind holes drilled in the mating surface, perhaps 1/4" dia and 1/4" deep.
The NR lower is similar to a regular AR lower, BUT HAS TWO 1/4" DOWELS THAT PROTRUDE UPWARDS, TO MATE WITH THE HOLES IN THE UPPER.
These dowels flat out prevent a standard AR15 upper attaching to the NR lower, so it cannot be considered a AR lower.

If someone is fine with a range-queen gun, they can still use their existing AR15 lower, the two holes in the upper are simply void space.



Second thought. Can you make your NR lower from real steel, rather than aluminum? Al is the perfect choice for a light carbine, but for a 50BMG, extra weight is a good thing. Stretched holes are not.

 

[condomboy]

I am wondering if Im the only one here that wants to know how accurate these are before a purchase? I mean is , 2 or 3 moa acceptable. has anybody been able to get the DA barrels shoot to an acceptable level for a 50?

I've talked with CanAm about the gun and the "DA Barrels" are manufactured by a major US gun manufacturer and brought in as blanks to be used in this gun so they should get some accuracy out of it, haven't shot it for groups at any distance yet as the NR lower isn't available but I was able to hit rocks at 100 fairly easy with it

It's my understanding that the upper is made in Canada, not China.

I don't know by whom, exactly.

correct, made in Canada

 

[XSlor]

Now if you could make some pistol type versions of these that would be great.

What would be the point in a pistol version? These are single shot custom uppers.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

If this is true, then the same part of the "law" would prevent you from modifying the DA50 upper, as it is classified no different than any other "AR-15 Upper".

There certainly IS some weirdness in the laws. IF we were to shorten the barrel, that would be illegal as stupid as that is. However we are not but we are making a structural modification to a NON regulated firearm part to fit a specific use only that happens to then make the entire unit NON restricted as our lower is NOT an AR variant of any sort.

Weird huh?

 

[XSlor]

Think you were thinking the canadian CS50, which is around 3k

I dunno... I thought Alberta tac said the NR lower is $750. The 50bmg from Canam is $1600. Is it going to fit straight on? I thought anything that gets mounted to this NR lower is gonna need a smith. So I assumed at the end of the day it was gonna be about $3000 by the time you buy, ship it around, get labor done... etc...

EDIT: NVM!

The lower with the upper modifications is $750.00

So that's actually pretty good! ~$2350 for a 50bmg that's NR.

 

[alberta tactical rifle]

I think atrs said the lower was $750 including their work to fit it to the upper. Please correct me if I've got this wrong.

You are correct, there will be parts from a standard LPK required as well but if it came to $50.00 i would be surprised.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Okay, so, to create a non-restricted firearm, you could:
Create a lower, which does not accept AR uppers (which you have already done).
Modify an upper such that is is accepted by your lower, and not accepted by AR lowers.

If you can do it with the DA50 upper, why can't you do it with ANY upper?

The lower in question is going to probably be similar to this:

Something that cannot accept a magazine or anything that could make it semi-automatic.

This is a very careful dance they are doing with the RCMP. They have to make it different enough that a regular AR15 upper can't go on, but similar enough so that the .50 BMG uppers can attach to it (with modifications). If they don't make it different enough, the RCMP will call it an AR15 lower and it's restricted (doesn't matter that it's only single shot). If they make it too different, then the uppers won't go on without hours of machining and fitting, and there is no point.

If you're trying to get a non-restricted AR15 or a rifle similar TO it, ATRS has said they are planning on making a rifle variant of their Modern Hunter scaled down to .223 which will hopefully use some handguards and a wider variety of accessories.

 

[FyreFighter]

Nobody in a position of authority has ever stated that an AR lower is defined as having the ability to accept an AR upper. That is not in law, or regulation. If every upper receiver on the planet were banned and destroyed, a stripped lower that the RCMP classifies as having been a variant of the Colt AR15, it would still be a restricted firearm. Got a flowerpot the lab deems a variant? Restricted. Cigarette lighter that they think is a variant of the AR? Restricted. Possibly prohibited as a flame-thrower

That was the whole kerfuffle over the Swiss Arms - the RCMP lab decided after the fact that they were descended from the prohib SG550 and as such, prohibs. Note that it wasn't that they could be made full-auto, but were descended from a prohib. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to envision the RCMP deciding that a lower is in fact a variant of the AR and as such, restricted.

ATR has stated that their lower is not an AR and I will take them at their word on that.

FF

 

[tootall]

Ha Ha "Gentleman (from Latin gentilis) we will leave it there I think.

So, glad you piped in. How heavy was that gun fired? Did you need to double up on ear protection?

The upper weighs 20 pounds, plus whatever you add to it. The weight plus the efficient muzzle brake eats the recoil quite well.
I did wear plugs and muffs the first time, not the second time. The shooter doesnt get nearly the blast compared to standing along side it.
When I was video-ing others shooting, I got hit by a wall of blast.

That's tootall!! All this time I thought he was a young guy! Lol

I AM a young guy!
I die my hair grey to make me look more distinguished. Chics dig that..