Para Ordnance New Rifle

capp325

Your comments are becoming juvenile. What makes you think I or anyone else has any obligation to tell you what the pricing structure is. Phone any manufacturer in your area and ask the same questions and you may find the silence you hear at the end of the phone means the recipient has hung up.

You already based your statements about Para pricing on a false assumptuion and now you want to continue. To what end?

Take Care

Bob
 
gadget said:
Backup the original distributor for Para was Ontario Sporting Supplies and that was when Para was in its infancy, then some behind the door politics occurred between Ontario & USSR - this opened the market for USSR, which meant we had two distributors for the product line, until the robbery/murder at Ontario Sporting Supplies.

gadget
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Thanks for the correction. I seem to recall a large amount of positive feedback regarding USSR as the distributor but had not heard anything regarding OSS. I am a great believer in competition in the marketplace. Were things any better with two distributors?
 
capp325 said:
LOL. I know but I'm not telling!! What a convincing argument. How old are you again? :D

It's obvious that you know nothing.
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and this is obvious because?

Perhaps YOU know the marketing director for PARA well enough to talk to him on a weekly basis........No? then before spouting off mebbe ask how canuck44 knows George Wedge(sp) and how Para became a major sponsor of the Canadian Forces Small Arms Competition this year.....ask those questions and you might think before postin the drivel above

bclinehand
 
Cnadnsl8-5

No, you are right... not always. Also doing business in Canada is not, in many cases, the same as doing it stateside. More costs, different tax structure, payroll taxes are different etc all of which have to be covered. Covered by, in the main comparitively low sales volumes.

The end price of the product be it Para or Corn Flakes is ultimately set by the retailer in most cases. To that end much depends on his buying power, volume discounts etc. provided by the distributer. Also, the price differential between countries is not clear cut and firearms are not the only product subject to pricing disparities due to volumes, taxes and fixed costs as you may well know.

Take Care

Bob
 
As far as releasing dealer pricing to non-dealers (or even other dealers) goes, it is a great way to have nothing to sell. In a different industry, I have removed all of the products I represented from a dealers shelves for releasing wholesale and discounted pricing. That information is NOT public, under any circumstances, ever. It's bad for the industry - any industry. Profit is necessary, get over it - and no, the consumer does not have the right to decide what "fair" profit is. If you don't like the pricing or the product BUY SOMETHING ELSE. But for God's sake don't whine about it.

Rant off.

PS new rifle doesn't look bad, I'd want a much closer look before deciding either way though.
 
bclinehand said:
and this is obvious because?

Perhaps YOU know the marketing director for PARA well enough to talk to him on a weekly basis........No? then before spouting off mebbe ask how canuck44 knows George Wedge(sp) and how Para became a major sponsor of the Canadian Forces Small Arms Competition this year.....ask those questions and you might think before postin the drivel above

bclinehand
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Canuck44 made a very specific claim - namely that Para's Canadian and American pricing is identical and that it's Canadian dealers that are responsible for gouging the consumer. When asked to substantiate his claim with hard numbers, his response was "I know the numbers but I'm not telling them to you". That a pretty stupid response, if you ask me. If he actually knew the numbers, and they supported his claim of equal pricing strategies, what reason would he have for withholding that information? And if you say that dealer pricing is confidential, perhaps he shouldn't have engaged in this discussion in the first place.

I really don't care who Cancuk44 knows at Para and what competition Para is sponsoring this year. None of that has anything to do with the claim that Canadian dealers are gouging consumers rather than Para. So far, we have seen absolutely no proof of this claim.
 
ian_in_vic

It (the rifle) does look interesting. Will be interesting to see once we are able to get our hands on one. From what I have been told there is a great deal of interest being expressed by the security folks and that clearly is where the major market is. For me it is another big boy toy, and I like my toys... for them a major tool. Big difference!

Take Care

Bob
 
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Cap325

"None of that has anything to do with the claim that Canadian dealers are gouging consumers rather than Para"

Show me where I claimed Canadian retailers are goughing consumers. Find a post on this thread where I used the word "gouging" in a way not directly referring to your post. You can't.

You will find this on your post # 30 to this thread authored by yourself:

"Oh wait a second...we're talking about Para Ordnance, right???? If their other products are any indication, expect to pay at least 50% more than what the yanks are paying. Personally, even it was a quality product (which I highly doubt), I wouldn't support a company that gouges Canadian gun owners in such a shameless manner."

Since that intuitive post you have learned that Pare doesn't sell direct to dealers, so guess now you intend to pursue some other paronoidal tangent.

What I have said and I will repeat Para does not control the end price of their product. It is you and only you who have used that word. Dealers have a right to price the products they sell and that is fair, they (the dealers) own the inventory they sell and can sell it for what ever the market will bare.

You might want to re-read what "ian_in_vic" has to say a couple of posts back. You might also want to re-read bclineman's post you missed what he said as well.

Take Care

Bob
 
Manufacturer sets MSRP - If para does not set the MSRP - it is their issue of failing that.

This is their downfall - of letting the distributor or the retailer do whatever they want, and that end up hurting its business. What do distributor and retail cares when they have many many different types of products to sell. They sell the ones easiest to get, the ones people want the most and the ones that give the highest margin.

Blaming other people is not an execuse. It is your business, you take charge of it. Retailer or distributor who violate your pricing policy get cut off.
 
"This is their downfall - of letting the distributor or the retailer do whatever they want, and that end up hurting its business. What do distributor and retail cares when they have many many different types of products to sell. They sell the ones easiest to get, the ones people want the most and the ones that give the highest margin."

Difficult to accomplish all three at once don't you think.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Show me where I claimed Canadian retailers are goughing consumers. Find a post on this thread where I used the word "gouging" in a way not directly referring to your post. You can't.
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Canuck44 said:
It isn't Para that is screwing you over it is the dealers.
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Okay, you didn't say "gouge", you said "screw over". I hope you are not going to try to argue the subtle semantic differences between the those two expressions...

Canuck44 said:
What I have said and I will repeat Para does not control the end price of their product. It is you and only you who have used that word. Dealers have a right to price the products they sell and that is fair, they (the dealers) own the inventory they sell and can sell it for what ever the market will bare.
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What you are describing is extremely unlikely for at least two reasons. First of all, as I already explained, when you have multiple dealers selling identical product with a significant profit margin, they will always engage in price wars with each, with the end result being the lowering of the said margins. Welcome to Economics 101. The only way this would not happen is if the dealers formed a cartel and conspired to fix prices. You are not alleging that, are you?

Another reason why your claim is improbable is the fact that there is such a huge disparity between American and Canadian retail prices. Are you trying to say that American dealers are much more generous than their Canadian counterparts and are willing to accept much lower profits? I just don't see why that would be the case. And don't tell me that it's a question of sales volume. Even small mom & pop gun stores in the U.S. offer better prices than the largest Canadian dealers.

The bottom line is that your attempted explanations fly in the face of simple logic and in the absence of any hard evidence to support your claim of equal dealer pricing for both countries, I can't see myself changing my opinion. It seems that either Para or Sylva (or both) are jacking up Canadian prices to keep them comparable to the prices of American imports in this country.
 
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One more time Cap325. Para doesn't sell to dealers.

You aren't about to buy a Para so you state and your posts are becoming repetitive and boring.

Take care

Bob
ps Back on my ignore list.
 
I'm not the kind of guy to put oil on fire but I just got a brand new flame suit...

An oligopoly is a market form in which a market or industry is dominated by a small number of sellers (oligopolists). The word is derived from the Greek for few sellers. Because there are few participants in this type of market, each oligopolist is aware of the actions of the others. The decisions of one firm influence, and are influenced by the decisions of other firms. Strategic planning by oligopolists always involves taking into account the likely responses of the other market participants. This causes oligopolistic markets and industries to be at the highest risk for collusion.
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There might have been a better way to phrase it but what if Canuck's disclosure of the ''wholesale'' price caused him or one of his partners to be fired? Loose lips cost lives ;)...
 
Matt_mg

What Cap325 fails to understand is that I am under no obligation to tell him something that clearly is none of his business. How I came to the information I have is not material. One comes to informaton in various ways and one does not cross confidences lightly. Certainly for no purpose and in this case there is none.

Retail prices in the end are set by the market. To survive a manufacturer must manufacture and sell his product ino the market at a profit. Retailers too. If the product fails to sell into the market both retailer and manufactuer fail as well. Secret is knowing your market.

Take Care

Bob
 
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