What are your opinions on shooting loose powder vs.pellets. I was always led to believe that pellets don't burn of as well, and that shooting 150 grains was just a waste of powder. Am I really out to lunch on this? If so what advantage would I gain from shooting 150 grains of 777 in a situation where I would rarely have over a 100yd. shot?
Pellets vs. Loose Powder
- Thread starter Big Game
- Start date
Loose T7 and T7 pellets produce velocities that are nearly identical per volume and there's a number of reasons for this but most noteably is that a 50-grain T7 pellet really doesn't have 50 grains by volume. Pyrodex on the other hand, the pellets give considerable more velocity than the same measure of loose. The hole in the middle of the pellet is more than a handy way to get it out of the box. It allows the spark in an inline to shoot up the middle of the pellets, creating a more uniform and faster burn. I've run hundreds of loads over the chrony and so has ever other muzzleloader shooter I know and the results are always the same 100-150fps increase in velocity depending on your barrel length. No bp or bp substitute that I've shot can match the velocity of three Pyrodex pellets.
There is no doubt that longer barrels are required to get the most out of 150 grain loads but I don't know of a muzzleloader that won't shoot higher velocities with 150 vs 100. Stories are of unburned pellets flying out the barrel are the product of a couple writers in the US who have thankfully shut their mouths because they had no idea of what they were speaking.
What advantage would you gain at 100yards? Virtually nothing and if all my shots were confined to 100 or less yards I'd never consider a 150 grain load. When you start shooting beyond 200 yards though....it's a world of difference. Obviously your load needs to be developed for the conditions but with a 150 grain charge, I'm holding on hair from 0-200 yards.
There is no doubt that longer barrels are required to get the most out of 150 grain loads but I don't know of a muzzleloader that won't shoot higher velocities with 150 vs 100. Stories are of unburned pellets flying out the barrel are the product of a couple writers in the US who have thankfully shut their mouths because they had no idea of what they were speaking.
What advantage would you gain at 100yards? Virtually nothing and if all my shots were confined to 100 or less yards I'd never consider a 150 grain load. When you start shooting beyond 200 yards though....it's a world of difference. Obviously your load needs to be developed for the conditions but with a 150 grain charge, I'm holding on hair from 0-200 yards.
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I know of a couple of guys with Remington inlines and using 209 primers, had a pellet fly through the air like a tracer. The Pyrodex pellets where a year old and several in the lot burnt up like that. They will never use them again.
Pyrodex Pellets
Snowshoe,
That's why I was asking for opinions, Sheephunter has some pretty good info and seems really confident in them. However, 90% of the feedback I have ever had on them has been negative. Maybe as he mentioned that's the difference between the structure of a pyrodex and 777 pellet. Might have to buy some and test them for myself. I dont mind working with loose powder but pellets sure would be more convenient.
Snowshoe,
That's why I was asking for opinions, Sheephunter has some pretty good info and seems really confident in them. However, 90% of the feedback I have ever had on them has been negative. Maybe as he mentioned that's the difference between the structure of a pyrodex and 777 pellet. Might have to buy some and test them for myself. I dont mind working with loose powder but pellets sure would be more convenient.
I shoot primarily a 250 grain SST with the black MMP sabot that comes with it.
Unless they got moist...age has no effect on pellets!
Most guys have never run their loads over a chrony and are going on what some friend of a friend said or something they heard on the internet. There is so much BS on the internet about pellets and sabots and most of it can be traced back to two self-proclaimed experts that spewed their crap all over the net. Thankfully they were exposed for the frauds they were. The only way to truly assess the advantage of pellets over loose in your particular gun is to run it over a chrony but I'll guarantee that Pyrodex pellets will produce more velocity in virtually all muzzleloaders over loose and that 150 grains will produce considerable more velocity than 100. The longer the barrel the better but still more velocity regardless. As for T7, the same can be said for increasing volume...velocity will increase but pellets do not produce more velocity than loose, it's just the convenience factor with them.
I'm betting 100% of the 90% negative feedback you get don't own a chrony.
I shoot loose powder (777) because my 700ml did not group as well with 100grns so I load 125grns and it is very accurate. I use 300grn sst's and am very happy with there performance on deer with hits from 25yards to 214yards. I have made all one shot kills and several droped in thier tracks.
They had been stored well along with other powder that worked just fine. I know one of the guys and he is very meticulous about how he looks after his stuff. I suspect a bad batch of pellets, just like a box of Remington primers I got once that had 10% duds. Sh-t happens.
Thanks for the info Sheephunter, I don't know that I would ever need to shoot 150 grains for the type of Whitetail hunting I do, but I can see that it sure could make a big difference if you were muzzleloading for something along the lines of antelope or mule deer where you might expect a 200 yd shot. I'll have to give the pellets a try next summer, do they come in smaller charges than 50 gr. in the T7 pellets?
Just 50 grains that I'm aware of. Pyrodex comes in 30 and 50.
Personally I'd never shoot over 125 grains of T7 and the truth is, T7 just doesn't give me the accuracy in my guns that Pyrodex does but each gun is unique. I have no issues shooting 150-grain loads of Pyrodex and the accuracy holds well. The recoil can be an issue for some though.
Personally I'd never shoot over 125 grains of T7 and the truth is, T7 just doesn't give me the accuracy in my guns that Pyrodex does but each gun is unique. I have no issues shooting 150-grain loads of Pyrodex and the accuracy holds well. The recoil can be an issue for some though.
Three of our group have been shooting Remington 700ML since they were first on the market using 100 gr pyro pellets and never had a problem. We did experience hang fire with these guns using 777, but like said eachgun likes different loads.
The short answer is no. TC makes or at least did make a caplock designed for pellets but even its performance wasn't great and that was with musket caps. I wouldn't use them. No danger just lots of misfires.
I envy those who can use pellets - if only for the convenience.
Huntsman and I have found that the only way we can get the consistancy we want is by weighing our charges - that is - weighing the desired volumetric load, and then dispensing pre-measured loads based on that actual weight
Uncommon - Maybe.
Time consuming - for sure.
Hey, it's not for everybody.
Huntsman and I have found that the only way we can get the consistancy we want is by weighing our charges - that is - weighing the desired volumetric load, and then dispensing pre-measured loads based on that actual weight
Uncommon - Maybe.
Time consuming - for sure.
Hey, it's not for everybody.
shootinblanks
Member
- Location
- Ingleside Ont
I shoot 3X50gr. pellets becouse I can. Have taken animals at 8yds out to 240yds you just never know how far an opportunity will be. Pellets offer the convenience and have never had a problem in the hundreds of shots taken.
If loose powder works for you great but try both and then make a descision, same with bullets.
If loose powder works for you great but try both and then make a descision, same with bullets.
What are you shooting? I've heard of guys doing that but I've sure never had the need in any of my in-lines. I've got two Omegas that will shoot sub MOA all day long with measured loads.
CVA & and Encore, we're just "picky" that way. under 2" groups @100yds. And also for me is, I dislike wasting the powder that spills off my measurer, it adds up, and I tend to be 'frugile' which is why I reload too. So when I go to the range I usually have about 15 or more pre-measured 35mm film canisters.
I'm normally satisfied after 6 shots,the other 9 are for playing
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