Picture of the day
- Thread starter jwhc
- Start date
We see more of the lady than her rifle, which is a good thing.
After zooming in a bit I'm going to change my vote from M1903 Springfield to P14 Enfield. The appearance of the front end of both rifles is quite similar when seen from below (I have several examples of both). The M1903 upper band screw has the head on the right side when looking down the barrel. The P14/M1917 has it on the left side, which this piece appears to have. The butt swivel bracket on the P14 is also a bit flatter than the milled M1903 type and the 2 screws are a bit more proud. Hard to tell from the angles, but the P14 sling swivels and stacking swivel are offset to one side whereas those on the M1903 are centered. These ones almost seem to be centered... and then there is the US M1907 leather sling. Estonia was supplied with the P14 post-WW1 which supports the probability of this being a P14. Again, the angles which prevent us from getting a look at the front sight unit. If we had a clear picture of that we would know for sure.
The three Baltic nations had a sad history in the 20th century. Along with Finland they broke out of Russian control after the Communist takeover in 1917/18. Then they were divvied up by the Nazis and the Soviets in the 1939 Ribbentrop-Molotov pact which was followed by Russian annexation in 1940 until 1990 with a miserable interlude of Nazi occupation from 1941-44. When I was serving in the middle east I met the aunt and sole remaining family member of a Latvian woman whose entire family had been exterminated by the Nazis. She, herself, had somehow survived this all as a small girl and eventually made it to Israel where she trained as a nurse and made a reasonably happy life for herself, all things being considered.
Back to the rifles. As I recall, Ross Rifles were also supplied to one or the other of the Baltic states post WW1. Post-Soviet Lithuania was also supplied with US M14 rifles along with other US pattern equipment. Maybe 50 yrs hence a future generation of gunnutz will be puzzling over a picture showing troops from a Baltic army (hopefully not the Russian army) handling M14s. In late 2005 we ran a CPX to assist with the training of the Canadian led multi national Bde HQ prior to it's deployment to Kandahar Province in Afghanistan. There was a fair amount of US and other allied representation in this exercise, surprisingly even a few odds and sods from one of the Baltic armies who were there for training/orientation purposes.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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Speaking of Estonain kit...
And I'm told this is somewhere in Leningrad. Can't be too far advanced into the seige. These lads all look pretty well fed.
Brother Purple speaks the truth. Not only did the Jews of the Baltic states get the usual treatment from the Einsatzgruppen, but when the Russians came back in 1944/45, EVERYONE got hosed. My honey's people are all Lithuanian. They lost substantial numbers to the gulags. Some came home, but many did not. I asked her auntie once who was worse.
"The Germans killed the Jews" she said, "but the Russians killed anyone."
Is it any wonder they're eyeing Vlad with some concern just now.
And I'm told this is somewhere in Leningrad. Can't be too far advanced into the seige. These lads all look pretty well fed.
Brother Purple speaks the truth. Not only did the Jews of the Baltic states get the usual treatment from the Einsatzgruppen, but when the Russians came back in 1944/45, EVERYONE got hosed. My honey's people are all Lithuanian. They lost substantial numbers to the gulags. Some came home, but many did not. I asked her auntie once who was worse.
"The Germans killed the Jews" she said, "but the Russians killed anyone."
Is it any wonder they're eyeing Vlad with some concern just now.
My wife's grand parents met in the gulag they were RussianSpeaking of Estonain kit...
And I'm told this is somewhere in Leningrad. Can't be too far advanced into the seige. These lads all look pretty well fed.
Brother Purple speaks the truth. Not only did the Jews of the Baltic states get the usual treatment from the Einsatzgruppen, but when the Russians came back in 1944/45, EVERYONE got hosed. My honey's people are all Lithuanian. They lost substantial numbers to the gulags. Some came home, but many did not. I asked her auntie once who was worse.
"The Germans killed the Jews" she said, "but the Russians killed anyone."
Is it any wonder they're eyeing Vlad with some concern just now.
The Mark IIIRoss Rifle was the official rifle of the pre-War LATVIAN Army as well. In Latvian Service it was referred to as the ROSS-ENFIELD.
I have a 1923 photograph of troops drilling on the main square in Riga. The rifles are definitely Rosses.
Serious numbers of Rosses also went to Estonia and Lithuania.
Russia was supplied with large numbers in BOTH World Wars.
As well, the Ross Mark III was the official rifle of the DOMINION OF NEWFOUNDLAND.
I have a 1923 photograph of troops drilling on the main square in Riga. The rifles are definitely Rosses.
Serious numbers of Rosses also went to Estonia and Lithuania.
Russia was supplied with large numbers in BOTH World Wars.
As well, the Ross Mark III was the official rifle of the DOMINION OF NEWFOUNDLAND.
I very much agree with your take on it Smellie. Without a quarter million 6x6 2.5 ton trucks where would the Red Army have got? Anywhere it could have marched on foot and just as fast as it could do that. Supplies....um, build a railway??
They would never have got to the Vistula, let alone the Oder without that aid.
After WWII they built truck factories, and very good ones too.
Ultra? Where to even begin with that!
We were pouring desperately needed fighters and tanks and arms into Russia while our forces were holding on by the skin of their teeth in North Africa and other places. Sometimes, like S.E. Asia, they didn't manage to hold on. This was hotly debated at the time and the records are there for anyone to see.
About the lady with the Springfield, she was un-named in the photo I linked to. She is not Natalya Kovshova, that was a misunderstanding caused by the link to the photo I was referring to being removed by the site that hosts the image. So I guess I should return the favour! (Done)
This retouched photo shows Maria Polivanova(?) holding some kind of Mauser type rifle, with Kovshova on the right perhaps also holding the same type.
They would never have got to the Vistula, let alone the Oder without that aid.
After WWII they built truck factories, and very good ones too.
Ultra? Where to even begin with that!
We were pouring desperately needed fighters and tanks and arms into Russia while our forces were holding on by the skin of their teeth in North Africa and other places. Sometimes, like S.E. Asia, they didn't manage to hold on. This was hotly debated at the time and the records are there for anyone to see.
About the lady with the Springfield, she was un-named in the photo I linked to. She is not Natalya Kovshova, that was a misunderstanding caused by the link to the photo I was referring to being removed by the site that hosts the image. So I guess I should return the favour! (Done)
This retouched photo shows Maria Polivanova(?) holding some kind of Mauser type rifle, with Kovshova on the right perhaps also holding the same type.
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they appear to be Polish wz.29I very much agree with your take on it Smellie. Without a quarter million 6x6 2.5 ton trucks where would the Red Army have got? Anywhere it could have marched on foot and just as fast as it could do that. Supplies....um, build a railway??
They would never have got to the Vistula, let alone the Oder without that aid.
After WWII they built truck factories, and very good ones too.
Ultra? Where to even begin with that!
We were pouring desperately needed fighters and tanks and arms into Russia while our forces were holding on by the skin of their teeth in North Africa and other places. Sometimes, like S.E. Asia, they didn't manage to hold on. This was hotly debated at the time and the records are there for anyone to see.
About the lady with the Springfield, she was un-named in the photo I linked to. She is not Natalya Kovshova, that was a misunderstanding caused by the link to the photo I was referring to being removed by the site that hosts the image. So I guess I should return the favour! (Done)
This retouched photo shows Maria Polivanova(?) holding some kind of Mauser type rifle, with Kovshova on the right perhaps also holding the same type.
The Russians liked those Studebaker trucks big time, so much so that they incorporated a lot of their features into the ZIL Series of 6x6 cargo trucks. I almost met my maker once in the shape of a ZIL. I was driving the Quenitra - Damascus road in my UN Passat sedan one day when here comes a Syrian Army ZIL turning in from a side road. It was clear that he wasn't going to stop and I couldn't stop in time to miss him, so I was left with 2 options; hit him or swerve left and go around the outside of his turn. Fortunately I missed him, but hit a rockpile that Allah placed on the left side of the road. I can still feel pieces of thar German crumble safety glass down the back of my shirt.
I turned out OK, but my engineer officerwho was in the passenger seat was slumped over moaning. Turns out he was OK too, but was having an attack of stomache cramps which often afflicted us (happiness in the Middle East was often a dry fart).
The young ZIL driver's company commander soon showed up followed by the battalion commander who cuffed him a couple of times and basically put the kid at my disposal. The young troopie was scared and shaking like a dog $hitting razor blades as he waited to get the chop. I asked how long the kid had been driving and they told me a couple of weeks or so. I asked if they had another ZIL and, if so, maybe they could find a quiet road junction somewhere and give the soldier some more driver training. They agreed to that and we then sat down for a glass of tea as I called for recovery. The kid went off looking like he had just won the Syrian version of LOTTO 649.
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I turned out OK, but my engineer officerwho was in the passenger seat was slumped over moaning. Turns out he was OK too, but was having an attack of stomache cramps which often afflicted us (happiness in the Middle East was often a dry fart).
The young ZIL driver's company commander soon showed up followed by the battalion commander who cuffed him a couple of times and basically put the kid at my disposal. The young troopie was scared and shaking like a dog $hitting razor blades as he waited to get the chop. I asked how long the kid had been driving and they told me a couple of weeks or so. I asked if they had another ZIL and, if so, maybe they could find a quiet road junction somewhere and give the soldier some more driver training. They agreed to that and we then sat down for a glass of tea as I called for recovery. The kid went off looking like he had just won the Syrian version of LOTTO 649.
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And Central and South America!
I'll stay with Kovshova's rifle being a 1903 Springfield as you cannot see any front sight ears in the picture plus the front barrel band screw is easily seen on the right side.
1903 Springfield front sight.
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?9944-1903-Springfield-questions
P-14 front sight.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Foyle's_War_-_Season_3
You have to scroll almost to the bottom to see the P-14 front sight picture.
The Baltic states had a large number of different types of rifles including a Mauser in .303.
1903 Springfield front sight.
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/showthread.php?9944-1903-Springfield-questions
P-14 front sight.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Foyle's_War_-_Season_3
You have to scroll almost to the bottom to see the P-14 front sight picture.
The Baltic states had a large number of different types of rifles including a Mauser in .303.
That's certainly true for Brazil and Panama
People in Canada take quality food supplies and so many other things that people in other places don't have as a given. Living and buying food on the economy in the Middle east was always a crapshoot(literally) in terms of availability, quality and cleanliness. There was always a high risk of ingesting various parasites and getting GI disorders because of a lack of basic cleanliness and sanitation and poor food handling techniques on top of the fact that human waste was used as a fertilizer for crops to a large extent. Some locally produced things that we couldn't eat included dairy products, green leafy vegetables (sorry, no salads), and root vegetables like potatoes, onions, and carrots. Things like tomatoes and zucchini that had a skin and grew above the ground were generally OK though. Basically any fruit and veg had to be soaked in a chlorine solution before eating them, even the excellent quality cherries, grapes and apricots that were available. Watermelons were OK and you would see vendors come into the city and unload a huge stack of them on the sidewalk and then set up camp and live there until they were all gone. Eating watermelon soon became quite monotonous.
Rice was a big staple in place of potatoes. We could get canned veg, jams and fruits and dry cereals and sometimes ultra heated milk imported from the US and Europe as well as tea and coffee. Funnily enough, the water supply was basically OK, although we still boiled it and would only drink bottled water when travelling. Local breads and meats (provided they were well cooked) and hummus were OK. The govt had a fixed price on staples like cooking oil, flour, sugar, bread, and beef and chicken. The price on beef was by the kilo, no matter what cut, so we always went for steaks. My Christian landlord used to get me fresh pork from Christian sources in Lebanon. We used to run our own PX store which we would stock with canned, preserved and frozen imports which came out of Beirut, as well as some pretty high quality booze from Europe.
Restaurants were always risky, even the ones in the big international hotels, like the Sheraton. I knew the Austrian manager of the Cham Palace Hotel and he would always put it down to poor personal hygiene by the kitchen staff. By process of elimination (getting sick or not) you picked the restaurants to eat at or to avoid. Some of the French cuisine was excellent. No fast foods, although the take out chicken was excellent because they used free range chickens, rather than ones from big industrial farms. One of my favourite restaurants was a French one called the Sindiana. Often I would just have caviar(Russian or Iranian) on bread with chopped egg and excellent Lebanese Rose wine followed by various crepes prepared at your table. This for 2 would cost about $10 and I never got sick at that place. When I travelled around the country I would always take a stock of bottled water and canned/preserved food, altho the local breads were always good. The local Mediterranean type cuisine was good and always worth a risk in the right places. Sometimes, like when dealing with the local military or civilian authorities, you just had to dig in for the sake of politeness if for nothing else (there really is such a meal as a one pot, hands only, goat-grab). I can still remember being served a tray of little blackbirds, complete with beaks and legs, which had been plucked and fried up crunchy style in ghee. Then there were the whole raw sheep brains and a dish called "spinal", raw pieces of spinal cord in a yoghurt sauce.
Even though I tried to be very fastidious about foods, I still had multiple infestations of parasites, incl amoebic dysentery, and other GI sicknesses that basically fried a portion of my small intestine and rendered it non-functioning. They did have local labs where you could take a specimen for diagnosis and most often the sickness was cured by fasting/purging and medications, incl some normally used for ######l yeast infections. Weight gain was never a problem and you would often be sick for up to a month or so. Even when you were feeling OK, you would still experience an occasional faint spell, and even a cough or a burp could be chancy because of the ongoing GI disorders that you lived with.
Medical facilities weren't all that bad. All doctors were trained abroad, mostly in the US, the UK or Germany, because they had no quality medical schools of their own. I even found a well equipped sports medicine clinic which was used by the Syrian Olympic team (never heard of them) to use for therapy after a severe back injury. I found that I had to get away to some place clean and green, like Europe, Cyprus, or even Turkey or Israel, every 4 months or so just to keep my perspectives after living in a heavy handed state security environment and to be able to relax and eat some quality meals. Some of the unanticipated consequences of serving in what DND and Foreign Affairs called a Level 3 Hardship Post.
Rice was a big staple in place of potatoes. We could get canned veg, jams and fruits and dry cereals and sometimes ultra heated milk imported from the US and Europe as well as tea and coffee. Funnily enough, the water supply was basically OK, although we still boiled it and would only drink bottled water when travelling. Local breads and meats (provided they were well cooked) and hummus were OK. The govt had a fixed price on staples like cooking oil, flour, sugar, bread, and beef and chicken. The price on beef was by the kilo, no matter what cut, so we always went for steaks. My Christian landlord used to get me fresh pork from Christian sources in Lebanon. We used to run our own PX store which we would stock with canned, preserved and frozen imports which came out of Beirut, as well as some pretty high quality booze from Europe.
Restaurants were always risky, even the ones in the big international hotels, like the Sheraton. I knew the Austrian manager of the Cham Palace Hotel and he would always put it down to poor personal hygiene by the kitchen staff. By process of elimination (getting sick or not) you picked the restaurants to eat at or to avoid. Some of the French cuisine was excellent. No fast foods, although the take out chicken was excellent because they used free range chickens, rather than ones from big industrial farms. One of my favourite restaurants was a French one called the Sindiana. Often I would just have caviar(Russian or Iranian) on bread with chopped egg and excellent Lebanese Rose wine followed by various crepes prepared at your table. This for 2 would cost about $10 and I never got sick at that place. When I travelled around the country I would always take a stock of bottled water and canned/preserved food, altho the local breads were always good. The local Mediterranean type cuisine was good and always worth a risk in the right places. Sometimes, like when dealing with the local military or civilian authorities, you just had to dig in for the sake of politeness if for nothing else (there really is such a meal as a one pot, hands only, goat-grab). I can still remember being served a tray of little blackbirds, complete with beaks and legs, which had been plucked and fried up crunchy style in ghee. Then there were the whole raw sheep brains and a dish called "spinal", raw pieces of spinal cord in a yoghurt sauce.
Even though I tried to be very fastidious about foods, I still had multiple infestations of parasites, incl amoebic dysentery, and other GI sicknesses that basically fried a portion of my small intestine and rendered it non-functioning. They did have local labs where you could take a specimen for diagnosis and most often the sickness was cured by fasting/purging and medications, incl some normally used for ######l yeast infections. Weight gain was never a problem and you would often be sick for up to a month or so. Even when you were feeling OK, you would still experience an occasional faint spell, and even a cough or a burp could be chancy because of the ongoing GI disorders that you lived with.
Medical facilities weren't all that bad. All doctors were trained abroad, mostly in the US, the UK or Germany, because they had no quality medical schools of their own. I even found a well equipped sports medicine clinic which was used by the Syrian Olympic team (never heard of them) to use for therapy after a severe back injury. I found that I had to get away to some place clean and green, like Europe, Cyprus, or even Turkey or Israel, every 4 months or so just to keep my perspectives after living in a heavy handed state security environment and to be able to relax and eat some quality meals. Some of the unanticipated consequences of serving in what DND and Foreign Affairs called a Level 3 Hardship Post.
And some stuff that I don't want to know!!!
I agree, a very interesting post, reminds me of how good we have it in Canada with quality food available every where
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Very cool, Purple. Thanks for that.
Speaking of Syria, trucks, and medical concerns...
Speaking of Syria, trucks, and medical concerns...
Very cool, Purple. Thanks for that.
Speaking of Syria, trucks, and medical concerns...
An ambulance driver packing a pistol. Our Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is guarded by soldiers with no ammunition.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Romanians.
