Picture of the day

[Kevan]

A great picture of the Martin B-26 Marauder and crew. They had a good war record, but were considered a pretty unforgiving aircraft compared to their cousin the North American B-25 Mitchell. The Mitchell soldiered on as a trainer and utility aircraft in the USAF and RCAF into the late 1950s. I used to see them being flown out of Saskatoon by the RCAF reserves and always wanted to fly in one. I finally got the chance last summer in a restored B-25 belonging to the Commemorative Air Force. It was an expensive half hour, but well worth it.

I remember as a kid growing up on the farm near the edge of the Saskatoon Airport watching the Mitchells and Expeditors doing circuits, only to be interrupted by the odd passenger plane arriving and departing.
It was normal to see a Sabre and / or a T33 now and then as well....

 

[bearhunter]

I was under the impression that the "ducks" represented "Pathfinder" missions???

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

German logistical support:

Miserable, sure, but at least it wasn't this:

"Oberst Klein, if you're quite done posing for glamour shots, would you mind terribly getting the rope out of the cab like I told you to?"

If one doesn't count being strafed, this was perfect:

Dry, paved roads, shirtsleeve weather. Heaven, comparatively speaking.

 

[fraserdw]

Here's apic that may explain your holes. Note the wood protruding. These holes are a framework to hold the camo net approve the structure so the net does not take the shape of the bunker.

 

[DOOK]

Tough Sob's.

 

[fraserdw]

the ft-17 is somewhat unique in that just about every military used them at some point, this one looks like it sat for a good while, it has long grass under it vs the hardscrabble around it. it also looks like the late cast turret. could have been captured in poland or russia, or france in war 1 or 2.

Captured in France and used in France, there were 3 German GHQ training panzer battalions in the Normandy landings area, they used a mix of FT17 and and B39 French tanks. They were all the armour available to Germans on D Day. The 101 Airborne captured 3 FT17 and used them til link up on D +2.

 

[RRCo.]

Here's apic that may explain your holes. Note the wood protruding. These holes are a framework to hold the camo net approve the structure so the net does not take the shape of the bunker.

Bingo! Still can't see why the holes are not square or regular looking or evenly spaced - that's not like the Germans!

 

[Sharps '63]

Tough Sob's.

Who? The men or the horses? I don't feel sorry for the men, but I do for the horses.

 

[fraserdw]

Who? The men or the horses? I don't feel sorry for the men, but I do for the horses.

In the first winter nearly 2 million horses died. The German army expansion in 1941 doubled infantry divisions, the main users of horse supply. The horse flesh was taken from France and the low countries, the horses had no chance in the coldest Russian winter in 100 years.

 

[purple]

Poor horses is right. A horse being worked in these conditions would require 40-50 lbs of quality forage daily plus access to water and some form of shelter to rest from the elements. Snow is a poor substitute for water and only drives the animal's need for additional calories to keep up body heat. There was zero chance of any of this being provided, so death from starvation and exposure was inevitable. Most horses wound up becoming feed for the troops or scavenging civilians.

 

[AP]

I was under the impression that the "ducks" represented "Pathfinder" missions???

could be but I thought the internet explanation of the painting of a sitting duck representing a "decoy" and its depiction of the role played by the aircraft on some missions seemed logical ... BUT admittedly my knowledge of aircraft is derived from a few well informed friends and what I read. My personal EXPERIENCE is restricted to sitting in a comfy chair eating pretzels (I preferred dry peanuts!) and drinking beer at the back ... I always ask for a row seat so I can admire any tight skirted smallish butts that might wander up the aisle with a tray of food or drinks! (this last item is exceedingly rare these days on Air Canada flights)

 

[Ganderite]

According to Google, it refers to "sitting ducks".

"I know that some of the American aircraft in the ETO used the image of a broom to denote a fighter sweep and a top hat and cane for an escort mission. In the Pacific, at least some units used a rubber duck to mark aircraft destroyed on the ground."

 

[fenceline]

Bingo! Still can't see why the holes are not square or regular looking or evenly spaced - that's not like the Germans!

Random wood cast into the concrete when it was wet. Has since rotted away, burned away or been blown away during combat.

Evenly spaced would defeat the whole point. It isn't supposed to look uniform. Random is best.

 

[AP]

Poor horses is right. A horse being worked in these conditions would require 40-50 lbs of quality forage daily plus access to water and some form of shelter to rest from the elements. Snow is a poor substitute for water and only drives the animal's need for additional calories to keep up body heat. There was zero chance of any of this being provided, so death from starvation and exposure was inevitable. Most horses wound up becoming feed for the troops or scavenging civilians.

My grandfather had served in the Austro-Hungarian cavalry .. preferred to be around horses, treated them better than most people and farmed with them as long as he could. But to most folks of that period - horses werent the romantic symbol they seem to have become - they were a tool - maintained at whatever level was required to ensure they could work. When they couldn't be cost justified -- they were discarded. But they were ubiquitous as was the knowledge of how to care for them and employ them (delivering coal, milk, bread, plowing and mowing, logging, pretty much everything - as a kid I picked tobacco on a farm that used horses to pull the boats). I think we forget that Canada still had cavalry in the 1930's (my father did infantry/cavalry combined training in Canada in the mid '30's) Poland had a large mounted force and the US still maintained cavalry units up to 1940 (+/-) ... but if their ultimate role was to feed troops and civilians after they outlived their practical usefulness -- that was ok too!

(the old axiom "if you cant take a joke - you shouldnt join" applied to horses as well - they just didnt have the choice!)

 

[Sharps '63]

According to Google, it refers to "sitting ducks".

"I know that some of the American aircraft in the ETO used the image of a broom to denote a fighter sweep and a top hat and cane for an escort mission. In the Pacific, at least some units used a rubber duck to mark aircraft destroyed on the ground."

In the absence of any better explanation - that makes sense.

 

[Sharps '63]

but their ultimate role was to feed troops and civilians after they outlived their practical usefulness -- that was ok too!

(the old axiom "if you cant take a joke - you shouldnt join" applied to horses as well - they just didnt have the choice!)

"An Apache will ride his horse to the ground, then eat it." John Wayne

 

[yorgi]

My mother, who grew up in Greece, still remembers the day the Army visited her village and appropriated the family's two mules.
Probably sent to the Albanian front to help fight the Italians, amazingly enough one of them made it back alive and was returned to them a year later.
Emaciated and close to death they nursed it to health and survived another five years.
I still remember visiting the same village in the early seventies and seeing the odd Kentucky mule with the USA brand on it's hindquarters.
UN relief and Marshall Plan brought a whole bunch of them in after WWII to help rebuild the countryside.

 

[AP]

My mother, who grew up in Greece, still remembers the day the Army visited her village and appropriated the family's two mules.
Probably sent to the Albanian front to help fight the Italians, amazingly enough one of them made it back alive and was returned to them a year later.
Emaciated and close to death they nursed it to health and survived another five years.
I still remember visiting the same village in the early seventies and seeing the odd Kentucky mule with the USA brand on it's hindquarters.
UN relief and Marshall Plan brought a whole bunch of them in after WWII to help rebuild the countryside.

Marshall Plan brought a whole bunch of them in after WWII to help rebuild the countryside...

George Marshall was an amazing man -- he agreed to step aside and hand picked Eisenhower for Supreme Allied Commander over MANY others - Ike was a bit off the "A" stream career path and a "PF" Major/LCol - but because Marshall saw his skill in admin, logistics, armor and interpersonal skills (having had to deal with MacArthur at one point under very stressful conditions) he got the nod (he did well in the Louisiana Maneuvers also!)... not to say that Ike didnt have a lot on the ball ... but it took Marshall to recognize it and employ it!

And it was Marshall that had the foresight and skill to "make war to make peace" and rebuild ... in my view - he was among the greatest true leaders of the last century - and very poorly recognized for his achievements and contributions on the global stage!

 

[purple]

"An Apache will ride his horse to the ground, then eat it." John Wayne

I don't know if things have changed all that much. The natives like to think of themselves as great horsemen, and at one time they were. They have been called some if the finest light cavalry that the world ever saw, but I don't know if this applied to the level of care that they gave their horses.

We have quite a good sized herd of semi-wild native horses at large on native land in the South Okanagan. There are ongoing issues with them getting onto private land and residential areas, poor fencing and getting hit by vehicles, but nothing seems to change. I think that it is mostly a case of benign neglect; the natives like to have them around, but really don't do much to control them or take care of them. Winters are fairly mild here with low snow levels on the slopes and valley bottoms so they are able to get through winter by foraging for wild grasses which are pretty sparse. They look pretty gaunt by spring green-up and there is some winter kill. They have pretty much adapted to things, but it would be good to see them under better care and control. Too much else for the "owners" to do nowadays I guess, watching Oprah and hanging out at Wally-world or Tim's, etc.

 

[purple]

My mother, who grew up in Greece, still remembers the day the Army visited her village and appropriated the family's two mules.
Probably sent to the Albanian front to help fight the Italians, amazingly enough one of them made it back alive and was returned to them a year later.
Emaciated and close to death they nursed it to health and survived another five years.
I still remember visiting the same village in the early seventies and seeing the odd Kentucky mule with the USA brand on it's hindquarters.
UN relief and Marshall Plan brought a whole bunch of them in after WWII to help rebuild the countryside.

There are still places in the world where a pack mule could be a great logistics asset, helicopters notwithstanding.

When I was a kid tractors had totally replaced horses on prairie farms, but it was interesting to see how people dealt with their horses when they were done with them as draft animals. Some shipped them out to the glue factory without a second thought. My grandfather had broken his land and farmed it with horses until the late 1930s, but he refused to dispose of them. Instead, they got to live out their years in well deserved retirement with good pasture in the summer and good hay and oats and a place in the barn in the winter. We kept some on until 1960 or so and they still got to work a bit pulling the stoneboat to clean out the barn and do other chores around the yard. It was something to hitch them up to a wagon box on skis in the winter to get around when the roads got plugged with snow. Binders and sheaves were pretty much passe' as well, but we always grew oats for the horses, cut them with a binder and put them up in stooks to dry. I admired my grandfather for this. He was a great horseman and kept some nice riding horses. I still have his spurs as a keepsake.

I was living in southern MB when the PMU/Premarin industry was going full tilt. They used an intermediate weight horse for this, very much like the old farm work horses. It was nice to see them out on pasture with their foals in the summer, but I always had mixed feelings about the PMU business which had them in a barn with a bag on for extended periods to collect their urine. The PMU business took a big hit around 12 yrs ago and a lot of the herds were thinned out dramatically. It was nice to see surplus horses being sold to new owners rather than going for pet food.