Most people who saw military service will experience some level of hearing loss from weapons effects and other things like aircraft engine noise. Folks who served in the artillery are a shoo-in for a DVA hearing loss pension and hearing aides. Back in the '60s we did all of our small arms firing w/o ear protection and while wearing steel helmets as an echo chamber to boot. I used to shoot on rifle teams where we didn't have to wear the steel helmet and I can remember my ears ringing for a couple of days after a range session. The Armoured Corps used to issue little ear plugs when firing tank guns. Small comfort when the concussion alone would really ring your bells.
Picture of the day
- Thread starter jwhc
- Start date
Nothing rung my bell like being number 1 on a Carl Gustav 84mm..firing prone - despite earplugs it cleared my sinuses and made my nose trickle. A lot of guys suffered significant hearing loss just sitting in the back of a 113 for hours on end
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
I always wondered how bad one had to screw up to get this job -
I never did sign up with the military, but I did see Judas Priest three times, Black Sabbath (w/Dio) twice, the Ramones once, and AC/DC, which was like being in a car accident for two hours. Tinnitus is my constant companion. And yet, the thought of being The Human Bipod makes me shiver.
I never did sign up with the military, but I did see Judas Priest three times, Black Sabbath (w/Dio) twice, the Ramones once, and AC/DC, which was like being in a car accident for two hours. Tinnitus is my constant companion. And yet, the thought of being The Human Bipod makes me shiver.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Better than being in penal batallion
I always wondered how bad one had to screw up to get this job -
I never did sign up with the military, but I did see Judas Priest three times, Black Sabbath (w/Dio) twice, the Ramones once, and AC/DC, which was like being in a car accident for two hours. Tinnitus is my constant companion. And yet, the thought of being The Human Bipod makes me shiver.
"By the book" the "human bipod" (that's a good term BTW) is supposed to face the direction of fire and hold the MGs bipod legs down tight. As shown in the pics the desire to get a hot facial of muzzle blast is just not there so no doubt with experience the human bipod makes the call to ignore the book.
That's actually not a bad way to get that type of machine gun into action quickly. It certainly wasn't the norm if a dug in position or hide where prone conditions were possible but if you needed to get into action fast or get your mg higher to clear a berm or from a roadside ditch that was a very good option that many allied machine gunners just didn't have. Brens maybe but I don't recall seeing a pic of it. The Lewis might be a good contender as were some of the Russian portable MGs. Many post war MGs were suited to such use but IMHO, a GPMG really needs to be as stable as possible to get on target and stay there.
I can just imagine how much that bipod coupling on the front of those guns dug into the backs of the human bipod. There is a very good reason they turned their backs from the muzzles. I wonder how many of those fellows carry burn scars???? Even those cooling shrouds get to hot to handle. Muzzle jump must be something else as well. I saw a pic of one fellow holding the bipod down and facing towards the muzzle. First thing that went through my mind was if he ended up blind.
I can just imagine how much that bipod coupling on the front of those guns dug into the backs of the human bipod. There is a very good reason they turned their backs from the muzzles. I wonder how many of those fellows carry burn scars???? Even those cooling shrouds get to hot to handle. Muzzle jump must be something else as well. I saw a pic of one fellow holding the bipod down and facing towards the muzzle. First thing that went through my mind was if he ended up blind.
First time I saw ear protection issued was when the Infantry got ear plugs in a "twist-to-open" plastic case. They were being deafened by the diesel detonation of the M113 APC - in addition to small arms noise. I presume that the gunners got them as well.
It became acceptable for shooting teams to wear ear muffs while I was still serving. Everyone else suffered.
And that's why the Aussies made up a foregrip to be mounted on the Bren so it could be fired from the hip/standing. The US Army trained to use one bipod leg on a M60 (bipod open) in the same role as a "grip" and I tried that with the C2 (man, now that's a million years ago) and it worked, to a degree.
Sporting Lad
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Budda-bud..... budda-bud.....budda-bud ....
We Yanks found we could fire the M-60 from the hip when necessary. Short busts tho, otherwise you'd get garroted by the ammo belt.
o-/
We Yanks found we could fire the M-60 from the hip when necessary. Short busts tho, otherwise you'd get garroted by the ammo belt.
o-/I signed up, but was declined on medical (heart murmur and scoliosis - both a surprise to me at the time).
So I put myself through college bouncing in punk and hip-hop clubs.
Something about being young and having testosterone - we need to surround ourselves with loud things and physical danger.
The idea of shooting an MG34 or MG42 off someone's shoulder may look cool, but .....
Considering the high cyclic rate and the tendency of the human body to react to the torque. I doubt that it did much for the beaten zone. Good photo op for the propaganda ministry though.
Considering the high cyclic rate and the tendency of the human body to react to the torque. I doubt that it did much for the beaten zone. Good photo op for the propaganda ministry though.
Unless you have actually operated as a gunner on either of those guns you wouldn't know how stable those MGs really are. Yes there is torque but not what you would expect. Also, I sincerely doubt that an experienced operator would be letting off long bursts. Long bursts of ammo is not only wasteful it makes for the need to change out barrels at the most awkward moments and could induce "cook offs." The pistol grip as well as the shoulder stock also help a lot to control those guns. The biggest factor for control is weight. IIRC they weigh 25+ pounds without a belt or side mounted round ammo can.
Your observation is good though.
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
I've tried being the Human Bipod, but with a Semi Auto TNW MG34, I would NEVER want to do it without good hearing protection...
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Sometimes you need a light, and you don't much give a damn who has one.
I know a guy who was a Marine machine gunner in Viet Nam. He told me that when they went on jungle patrols he carried his mg 60 horizontal with a long sling over his shoulder, one bipod leg down as a fore grip and 100 rnd belt on place. When they got in an ambush his job was to make the NVA keep their heads down. Ha said he would drop to one knee and start spraying, by the time the first belt was gone the assistant gunner had the next attached. He told me that he washed out more barrels than he can recall.
Not anymore. It is damned hard to get a hearing pension now since pretty much everyone in the combat arms has tinnitus of some degree and they wont give a pension for that without severe hearing loss as well which is ridiculous. Bean counters win again.
No.1 on the CG is nothing. It is worse being the number 2 or heaven forbid anywhere beside it when it fires. The No.1 actually has the most protection from the blast. I have over 100 rounds down range with the CG as the No.1 and it is nothing in comparison to being beside a Leopard 1 or 2 when they fire. If you are anywhere forward of the gun mantlet when it fires, even with hearing protection, your hearing is ####ed.
I've tried being the Human Bipod, but with a Semi Auto TNW MG34, I would NEVER want to do it without good hearing protection...
Had an RCR MCpl let loose a C9 about an inch or two from my head. The muzzle blast actually went directly under my helmet into my ear. First sensation is like someone driving a nail through your eardrum, then pain and then no sound for hours........VAC still denies the hearing loss in my left ear is military related....
When I was in the Field Artillery, we were issued electronic hearing protection earmuffs - similar to what's in use now (they deaden loud noise while allowing conversation without yelling - although we were always yelling anyway 
) except this was in the late 80's.
When they were issued to us, we were told they cost about $500. IIRC that was pretty close to what the actual price was for that (brand new) technology back then. They worked pretty well at deadening the sound when you fire the piece. We also used them for rifle, pistol, and SMG target practice, and they worked very well there.
I still have 95% of my hearing, even though I've been working around loud diesel engines most of my life.
) except this was in the late 80's. When they were issued to us, we were told they cost about $500. IIRC that was pretty close to what the actual price was for that (brand new) technology back then. They worked pretty well at deadening the sound when you fire the piece. We also used them for rifle, pistol, and SMG target practice, and they worked very well there.
I still have 95% of my hearing, even though I've been working around loud diesel engines most of my life.
