Picture of the day

RRCo. said:
Notice the Totenkopf?

Little boys naturally have trouble understanding the moral and historical context of the military hardware they find so fascinating. As we get older we hopefully learn more about those things and gain some perspective. Some of course remain little boys all their lives, devoid of moral and historical perspective or simply too immature to ever gain any. After experiencing a few massacres of our PoWs by the SS, many Canadian troops got in the habit of taking no SS prisoners. After murdering their way across Europe and back again over five years, the millions the SS killed, civilians, PoWs, women and children are unnumbered and unknown. Don't bother telling me how nice some of them were, that they were just good anti-communists, they exemplified the worst of that that arrogant and brutal mentality that was out to enslave the world and cost us the lives of equally uncounted millions of our best citizens. I'm just sorry some of our wannabe f------s couldn't meet a few of our now-departed vets and get some truth knocked into them.

Now enjoy your pictures, fantasies, whatever.
Click to expand...

The "Death Head" image has been wore by many troops, not just the SS. If you looked and read a little more closely you will see that they were regular troops. There is no SS marking and they don't use SS ranks. A number, I don't know how many, German regiments used the image, mostly armoured ones.
In the SS, the death head was used only by the camp guards at first. The original Totenkof regiment was recruited only from the camp guards.

Just a little history. BTW, all armys have a history that they would like buried, including the Canadian one.
 
RRCo. said:
Notice the Totenkopf?

Little boys naturally have trouble understanding the moral and historical context of the military hardware they find so fascinating. As we get older we hopefully learn more about those things and gain some perspective. Some of course remain little boys all their lives, devoid of moral and historical perspective or simply too immature to ever gain any. After experiencing a few massacres of our PoWs by the SS, many Canadian troops got in the habit of taking no SS prisoners. After murdering their way across Europe and back again over five years, the millions the SS killed, civilians, PoWs, women and children are unnumbered and unknown. Don't bother telling me how nice some of them were, that they were just good anti-communists, they exemplified the worst of that that arrogant and brutal mentality that was out to enslave the world and cost us the lives of equally uncounted millions of our best citizens. I'm just sorry some of our wannabe f------s couldn't meet a few of our now-departed vets and get some truth knocked into them.

Now enjoy your pictures, fantasies, whatever.
Click to expand...

Its history plain and simple.

Yes a number of Canadian and Allied soldiers can tell stories of how barbaric some of the enemy soldiers where, but will they also tell their side of the story about how they indiscriminately killed captured German POW's while advancing from Normandy because they had no means of marshaling them to the rear or feeding them? Nope I guess not. We will not even discuss how the Soviets acted!!!

War is War and became very brutal on both sides. The only difference is the winner gets to talk about how bad the other side was...........and do not turn this into how can I compare the two because I can and feel the Germans deserved everything that came their way.....however nobody is blameless.
 
Last edited:
RRCo. said:
Notice the Totenkopf?

Little boys naturally have trouble understanding the moral and historical context of the military hardware they find so fascinating. As we get older we hopefully learn more about those things and gain some perspective. Some of course remain little boys all their lives, devoid of moral and historical perspective or simply too immature to ever gain any. After experiencing a few massacres of our PoWs by the SS, many Canadian troops got in the habit of taking no SS prisoners. After murdering their way across Europe and back again over five years, the millions the SS killed, civilians, PoWs, women and children are unnumbered and unknown. Don't bother telling me how nice some of them were, that they were just good anti-communists, they exemplified the worst of that that arrogant and brutal mentality that was out to enslave the world and cost us the lives of equally uncounted millions of our best citizens. I'm just sorry some of our wannabe f------s couldn't meet a few of our now-departed vets and get some truth knocked into them.

Now enjoy your pictures, fantasies, whatever.
Click to expand...

You do realize there is always more than one side to a story? The truth is truly a difficult thing to obtain, and blindly believing what others will tell you won't get you there. Morals are subjective (for example what I find morally offensive, differs from someone in say Afghanistan, and it might differ from you as well), and your 'historical context' is also dependent on whose history book you are reading.

As the victors of WWII, we immediately set about to justify our actions in the Second World War. We did the same thing in WWI (and every other war throughout history), which only recently has enough time passed for people to realize wasn't any one nations fault, rather the faults and actions of many nations which all contributed to the war. The reason we are able to look at WWI objectively is there is no longer any need to justify our actions in that war as it was so long ago (virtually no living memory), and it doesn't have a significant active effect on us (WWII took the place of that). WWII's results still has a very active effect on our world and it will likely still be a while before it can be debated objectively.

Just because someone elses truth doesn't coincide with yours doesn't necessarily mean it is incorrect, just that they have a different perspective, and different information than you have.
 
Subjective Morality is complete foolishness.

When you can move the goalposts to suit your "feelings" or "viewpoints", anything is permissible....

Eaglelord17 said:
You do realize there is always more than one side to a story? The truth is truly a difficult thing to obtain, and blindly believing what others will tell you won't get you there. Morals are subjective (for example what I find morally offensive, differs from someone in say Afghanistan, and it might differ from you as well), and your 'historical context' is also dependent on whose history book you are reading.

As the victors of WWII, we immediately set about to justify our actions in the Second World War. We did the same thing in WWI (and every other war throughout history), which only recently has enough time passed for people to realize wasn't any one nations fault, rather the faults and actions of many nations which all contributed to the war. The reason we are able to look at WWI objectively is there is no longer any need to justify our actions in that war as it was so long ago (virtually no living memory), and it doesn't have a significant active effect on us (WWII took the place of that). WWII's results still has a very active effect on our world and it will likely still be a while before it can be debated objectively.

Just because someone elses truth doesn't coincide with yours doesn't necessarily mean it is incorrect, just that they have a different perspective, and different information than you have.
Click to expand...
 
I'll bet that made the people they killed feel a LOT better ...... Uniforms have always been a part of militarism. look at the Victorian era , for example. The Brits sent their troops to the Crimea in comic opera theatrical outfits. As many (if not more) died of hypothermia, exposure and weather related illnesses.

Old Albertan said:
Interesting to note that Hugo Boss was the designer and supplier of those black uniforms. Evil as they were, they were likely the most stylish looking troops in Europe.
Click to expand...
 
Desert_Fox said:
Subjective Morality is complete foolishness.

When you can move the goalposts to suit your "feelings" or "viewpoints", anything is permissible....
Click to expand...

My point is that the goal posts are all in different locations to begin with depending on who you are talking to. What is moral? It varies depending on the cultures, religions, and perspectives of the individual. For example I personally see the death penalty as moral, however many others (especially in this day and age) have the opposite view point. Does that mean I am wrong, or they are wrong? No it just means we have different perspectives on it.

There is no set moral code, if there was it wouldn't be debatable in the first place.
 
o07x5e.jpg

German Wehrmacht General Anton Dostler is tied to a stake before his execution by a firing squad in a stockade in Aversa , Italy , on December 1, 1945. The General, Commander of the 75th Army Corps, was sentenced to death by an United States Military Commission in Rome for having ordered the shooting of 15 unarmed American prisoners of war, in La Spezia, Italy, on March 26, 1944. (AP Photo)

axxow9.jpg

Hermann Goering, once the leader of the formidable Luftwaffe and second in command of the German Reich under Hitler, appears in a mugshot on file with the Central Registry of War Criminals and Security Suspects in Paris, France, on November 5, 1945. Goering surrendered to U.S. soldiers in Bavaria , on May 9, 1945, and was eventually taken to Nuremburg to face trial for War Crimes. (AP Photo)

2ic46z4.jpg

A U.S. soldier examines a solid gold statue, part of Hermann Goering's private loot, found by the 7th U.S. Army in a mountainside cave near Schonau am Konigssee, Germany, on May 25, 1945 The secret cave, the second found to date, also contained stolen priceless paintings from all over Europe. (AP Photo/Jim Pringle)
 
Gibbs505 said:
The "Death Head" image has been wore by many troops, not just the SS. If you looked and read a little more closely you will see that they were regular troops. There is no SS marking and they don't use SS ranks. A number, I don't know how many, German regiments used the image, mostly armoured ones.
In the SS, the death head was used only by the camp guards at first. The original Totenkof regiment was recruited only from the camp guards.

Just a little history. BTW, all armys have a history that they would like buried, including the Canadian one.
Click to expand...

If it matters, my final sentence was not directed at you personally.

Whatever it is you think the Canadian Army would like buried it is less than nothing compared to the SS, or for that matter the Wehrmacht.

I'm not interested in which of their formations used the death's head or didn't. They all might as well have as death and destruction is what they spread all over Europe and many other places to satisfy that stupid German ambition of "world mastery or downfall".
 
The German army of WWI wore a belt buckle emblazoned with the logo - "Gott Mitt Uns". The Kaisers's troops stomped across Europe wearing that as they invaded western Europe, causing the deaths of untold millions.
My late father-in-law was a Panzer Grenadier who escaped Stalingrad only to be captured later in the Ukraine and sent to Siberia, returning to Germany in 1951 a man broken in health and spirit. He would have agreed with you on the folly of National Socialism, Lebensraum and the lie of Aryan superiority. Prior to the war, he was a piano tuner. He was bitter that the same men who ran German industry under Hitler were still the power brokers, rebuilding the German economy.


RRCo. said:
They all might as well have as death and destruction is what they spread all over Europe and many other places to satisfy that stupid German ambition of "world mastery or downfall".
Click to expand...
 
Its been 71 years since the utter collapse of Nazism and the exposure of all of it's attendant evils, but some like to romanticize the Nazi era all the same. Years ago I was involved in busting a small neo-Nazi circle which had developed among the Austrian troops in the Middle East. The stupid young buggers even had swastika badges made up which they were wearing under their lapels.

Former UN Secretary General and Nazi officer Kurt Waldheim was the president of Austria at the time. I suggested to the Austrians that he would probably not smile on this and, poof, no more Nazi club.
 
The fascination some have for collecting Nazi memorabilia has always puzzled me. The swastika symbolizes evil, the emblem of nationalism and military idolatry gone mad. The few neo-Nazis I've encountered were d!psh!tz who couldn't find their own asses with both hands twice on the same day, ignorant of the history and not the brightest bulbs on the string.
 
Alzheimer's makes you forget who you are. Waldheimers makes you forget you were a Nazi.

Sharps, your question is one I've wondered about for some time. Why do books about serial killers sell spectacularly well? Why is Charles Goddamn Manson still a household name? Why are humans fascinated with the members of our species who either choose or are ordained by bad wiring/fate/circumstance to behave so horribly? if I was a psychologist, I'd have a clue, but frankly it's always mystified me.

I know that not everyone who signed on to support Hitler did it out of a lust for world domination or a feeling that the superiority of the Aryan Race had to be proven. What about SS Volunteer Divisions populated by Ukrainians, Danes, Swedes, Latvians, Estonians, Croats, Indians, French, etc? It's simple and easy to say "They're traitors and scum" but I believe it's more realistic to say they hated Communism (a trait many here can sympathize with, I'm sure) and were willing to sign up with anyone who was working against "the endless, persistent efforts of International Bolshevism". They picked a hell of a team to do that with, but they felt they were right and chose the playmate that best suited their needs. Churchill would have loved to have waded in against Uncle Joe himself, but recognized that the necessities of war and politics could not forgive tying one's self to a truly evil force. Had the administration not shortened his leash, Patton would have gone in all by himself.

We can all agree that Nazism was a morally bankrupt concept, applied by supremely manipulative madmen, and was nearly the end of civilization in Europe. It allowed the Soviets an excuse to trample the rights of people far beyond their borders. It was the cause of the pointless destruction of millions and millions of lives on all sides. Everyone suffered, no one won. I'm told that at one V.E. Day celebration broadcast on the radio in the US, there was none of the usual "U-S-A-U-S-A!" crap our American cousins throw out there when they win anything bigger than a free pop at McDonalds. The mood was somber and thankful. People knew they'd lost people and futures that could never get back. And yes, Hitler and his ilk were responsible for starting that mess.

We are fascinated by extremes - biggest buildings, fastest plane, tallest mountain - and human evil has that fascination for us as well. How evil can someone get? Hitler-evil. The trappings of that hold a dark fascination for us the same way people ran up to John Dillinger's body in Chicago and dipped their hankies in the pool of blood. Having access to some small part of that is just something we want. Ain't praiseworthy, and is sure feckin' weird, but humans are funny creatures.
 
Well said, Dan. The veneer of civilized behaviour is thin indeed, and starts to disintegrate after the first 72 hours of a crisis. Then we are willing to kill each other for the basic necessities. Fear the "Zombie Apocalypse"!

When I was a teenager, I read a book by a British journalist working in Germany prior to WWII entitled "Education For Death", the story of the Hitler Jugend. What shocked me was the appeal that the HJ would have had for ME as a young teen! The uniforms, torch light parades, drums & bugles, the HJ messer enscribed with "Blut Und Ehre", the route marches, the fuss made about youth by the NSDAP Gauleiters, etc., etc.

The author was trying to warn the rest of the world about what he feared was coming, The Spanish Civil War just a precursor to the blood letting yet to come.

All of it would have been very attractive to me and I would have been all over it like a dirty (brown) shirt. As it was, I was quite proud to be a Cadet and that lead to 12 years Regular Army service.
 
The fascination with NAZI memorabilia has two or even more faces. Some people collect the firearms and accessories to fill out certain aspects of their collections. The NAZIs weren't the only EVIL forces at work in the world during their time. There were a lot of other regimes that were every bit as oppressive. The Turks, Soviets, Japanese, Chinese for instance. Today there are still many despotic regimes around the world which we often not only ignore but give them credibility in the UN.

People have always had a fascination with evil until they actually face it up close and personal. In the past, right up to and even after WWI it wasn't uncommon for civilians to go to the areas surrounding the battlefields to watch the combatants while picnicking. Why anyone would want to do that is beyond me. The Roman Coliseums and similar facilities were also prime examples of man's general inhumanity. I could use Syria as a present example but it would just be one of many.

I have seen some horrendous things happen. Thankfully on a low key level but I know and I suspect Purple knows of or has personally seen similar things. Some of the things that happen in our own cities on a regular basis are just as horrendous. Evil often goes hand in hand with innovation. Some people actually call it genius under certain circumstances. What really occurs are events that are unimaginable for sane people and they don't comprehend what is happening until it's to late. That is the biggest fly in Big Brother's ointment.

Sadly, the people least likely to be exposed to evil are the most fascinated by it. Often they are people we elect to lead nations.

I don't mind seeing Nazi memorabilia displayed as capture trophies. It gives me a good feeling to know that what I consider GOOD overcame EVIL.

Then again, some people get their rocks off on being EVIL and display these items for completely different reasons. I don't have any time for them at all.


Here is something to consider. If you had the opportunity to collect KGB and Soviet Special Unit firearms from 1914 to the fall of the Soviet Union, would you??? Of course you would. Certain aspects of that empire were utterly and completely evil. There is a very good chance that the Soviets killed many more of their own people than the Nazi forces did. What is the fascination there???

Evil is Evil. The big thing is to recognize it for what it is and fight it to a standstill at every opportunity without becoming Evil ourselves. Sadly our world Diplomats have made careers of maintaining a constant level of Evil as a level of job creation opportunities.
 
Last edited:
WRT Germany/Nazis/etc.

I appreciate the engineering found in many German items.

I've also been to a German death camp. They 'only' killed 5000 or so people at Stalag 339.

Yeah.

I've seen both sides, and know that the production of many of the items sought after by collectors nowadays came at the price of lives drained away.

I have no interest in collecting memorabilia that may glorify Nazis. That's an evil I wish was behind us, but know still exists in the world today in one form or another, behind a swastika or a black flag, it's still there.

NS
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom