Picture of the day

[Dark Alley Dan]

Apologies, Grelmar - we are indeed talking about two different things. I thought you were referencing the Arrow.

Speaking of Arrows:

Bring a friend, why not?

There's one left at the Udvar-Hazy. Gotta get to the Smithsonian one day.

 

[donor]

Another conversation starter and a good laugh:

Story this picture came from- http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageN...erican-friendship--2011-APRIL-FOOLS-HOAX.aspx

 

[grelmar]

Apologies, Grelmar - we are indeed talking about two different things. I thought you were referencing the Arrow.

No worries at all. Generally I defer to your knowledge - I'd be a poor gambler if I bet against you on a regular basis.

Don't get me started on the Arrow... So much myth, misinformation, and wishful thinking around that aircraft. It's a tragedy what the government did, but at the same time, it wasn't the wonder weapon of so many enthusiast's dreams. It had a lot of potential, but it was far from fully baked when the plug got pulled.

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Another conversation starter and a good laugh:

Story this picture came from- http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageN...erican-friendship--2011-APRIL-FOOLS-HOAX.aspx

Thats very clever and well-written. In light of the F35's demonstrated limitations and expense, I wonder if we might want to pursue MIG 29 ownership.

I rather like these. It'd be fun to own one.

The ol' 21 is still a great looking thing. Very "jet-shaped".

 

[diopter]

.

Should show this to Boeing.

 

[Red_Liner740]

Agreed....i wonder if the whole Arrow thing became what it became because it was cancelled? Kind of like a movie star becomes famous only after they die in a tragic accident. My thinking is...had the Arrow project not been cancelled, it would have had a short lived career, like most of the fighters in that era...as the technology progressed the air frame would have been abandoned for something newer and better. Secondly, even if the Arrow was as great as people would like to believe, it was designed as a long range bomber interceptor....a role which died anyways when Russians and Americans went away from primarily bombers for nuclear deterrent to ICBM and submarines.

No worries at all. Generally I defer to your knowledge - I'd be a poor gambler if I bet against you on a regular basis.

Don't get me started on the Arrow... So much myth, misinformation, and wishful thinking around that aircraft. It's a tragedy what the government did, but at the same time, it wasn't the wonder weapon of so many enthusiast's dreams. It had a lot of potential, but it was far from fully baked when the plug got pulled.

 

[shredder]

Agreed....i wonder if the whole Arrow thing became what it became because it was cancelled? Kind of like a movie star becomes famous only after they die in a tragic accident. My thinking is...had the Arrow project not been cancelled, it would have had a short lived career, like most of the fighters in that era...as the technology progressed the air frame would have been abandoned for something newer and better. Secondly, even if the Arrow was as great as people would like to believe, it was designed as a long range bomber interceptor....a role which died anyways when Russians and Americans went away from primarily bombers for nuclear deterrent to ICBM and submarines.

The Arrow would still have been useful as a bomber interceptor, the targets would've been Soviet Naval Aviation bombers and the venue would've changed from the Canadian Arctic to the North Atlantic. The Arrow would have been an excellent plane to base on Iceland, at Goose Bay, at RAF Stornoway, at Norwegian Air Force bases, to take on Soviet Naval Aviation cruise missile carriers that were trying to destroy NATO convoys in the event of a Soviet invasion of Western Europe.

Like every other military aircraft ever built, the Arrow would have been modified and upgraded several times over its operational lifespan - something the RCAF has had to excel in. The Arrow was so far ahead of its time that I think it's possible it would've been in service up to the 21st century - but certainly in service until the end of the Cold War in the early 90's.

 

[donor]

Lancaster and Mosquito being bombed-up.In those days "cookie monster" had a completely different meaning.Square packages are incendiaries.

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

COOKIE!

Looks like a hot water heater. Graceless bloody object, but "does what it says on the tin"...

 

[diopter]

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

So was diggin' in the yard and found something...

Huge unexploded World War Two bomb dropped by RAF defused after 54,000 people evacuated from their homes in Germany at Christmas
Unexploded 1.8-tonne British bomb was discovered during construction work in southern German city of Augsburg which was bombed in February 1944

 

[diopter]

So much for aerodynamics. Not even a drag Chute. Fusing would seem to be problematic if that can is tumbling all the way down.

 

[lister]

The Arrow would still have been useful as a bomber interceptor, the targets would've been Soviet Naval Aviation bombers and the venue would've changed from the Canadian Arctic to the North Atlantic. The Arrow would have been an excellent plane to base on Iceland, at Goose Bay, at RAF Stornoway, at Norwegian Air Force bases, to take on Soviet Naval Aviation cruise missile carriers that were trying to destroy NATO convoys in the event of a Soviet invasion of Western Europe.

Like every other military aircraft ever built, the Arrow would have been modified and upgraded several times over its operational lifespan - something the RCAF has had to excel in. The Arrow was so far ahead of its time that I think it's possible it would've been in service up to the 21st century - but certainly in service until the end of the Cold War in the early 90's.

It would also have left Canada with a cutting edge aeronautics industry. We could be designing and building our own fighters instead of trying to buy clapped out relics from other countries.

 

[AP]

It would also have left Canada with a cutting edge aeronautics industry. We could be designing and building our own fighters instead of trying to buy clapped out relics from other countries.

not so sure. Who would we have sold to? Certainly not the US - they intend to foster their own military aviation industry. To the UK? Maybe..but they would be interested in developing their own export markets... West Germany? I think they would have bought from the US. France? No chance! The rest of the world either couldnt afford to buy from us unless we subsidized the sales (eek!! Shades of Bombardier) or would have been part of the Warsaw pact...and forbidden as clients. Besides...ask Frank Stronach...he made out like a bandit when they cancelled the 'Arrow'.

 

[bearhunter]

not so sure. Who would we have sold to? Certainly not the US - they intend to foster their own military aviation industry. To the UK? Maybe..but they would be interested in developing their own export markets... West Germany? I think they would have bought from the US. France? No chance! The rest of the world either couldnt afford to buy from us unless we subsidized the sales (eek!! Shades of Bombardier) or would have been part of the Warsaw pact...and forbidden as clients. Besides...ask Frank Stronach...he made out like a bandit when they cancelled the 'Arrow'.

Not so sure about that. Supposedly one of the aircraft was flown to the US for study, before destruction.

 

[Dark Alley Dan]

Spare a moment for the poor, sad, entirely inadequate Fairey Battle.

Not great in 1933, even more comparatively awful in 1939, and the aircraft Bomber Command tasked with the defense of France in 1940. By 1941, most were either used/broken up...

... in Canada towing targets and training air gunners...

...or under new management.

Here's a survivor at Hendon. One of five, two of them in Canada.

 

[grinder08]

Spare a moment for the poor, sad, entirely inadequate Fairey Battle.

Not great in 1933, even more comparatively awful in 1939, and the aircraft Bomber Command tasked with the defense of France in 1940. By 1941, most were either used/broken up...

... in Canada towing targets and training air gunners...

...or under new management.

Here's a survivor at Hendon. One of five, two of them in Canada.

You forgot to mention killing their crews. The number I heard was 50% loss rate per mission, yikes.

 

[Ganderite]

^^ A waste of a good engine and pilot.

 

[Sharps '74]

... not to forget the hapless rear gunner, and wasn't there a third crew member? The Fairey 'Battle' was a classic misnomer for an aircraft very unsuited for a battle role.

 

[Bubba Yugga]

I'm sure there were people in the war ministry that reserved them for the sons of politicians they didn't like...