In the case of the soldiers in question, the difference would have been moot.
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- Thread starter jwhc
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In the case of the soldiers in question, the difference would have been moot.
Soviets killed them ALL.
There is evidence that our leaders knew what was going on even as they were being handed over.
At very least, our leaders did not WANT to know.
That trainload of Josef Stalin IIIs really put the wind up a lot of people; we had nothing with which to counter it.
Anything for peace with Uncle Joe.
There is evidence that our leaders knew what was going on even as they were being handed over.
At very least, our leaders did not WANT to know.
That trainload of Josef Stalin IIIs really put the wind up a lot of people; we had nothing with which to counter it.
Anything for peace with Uncle Joe.
Sporting Lad
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Bomb trumps tanks.
Ah, but "we" had The Atomic Bomb, and "they" didn't!
That was a major advantage for the next four years.
Ah, but "we" had The Atomic Bomb, and "they" didn't!
That was a major advantage for the next four years.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
That isn't the only story of Canadians killing surrendered Germans. I've heard about green troops in Normandy, all fired up from training, getting edgy guarding/escorting prisoners back to the POW pens. Even a relative of mine settled a minor uprising by shooting a prisoner. Apparently he said, he felt bad about it, but they didn't give him anymore trouble after that.
Read Max Hastings book "Armageddon" , it details how everyone including Russian, German, American and Canadian troops dealt with prisoners that they either didn't have the manpower to take care of or they just wanted dead. Its not a pretty read if you believe that the Allies were pure of heart and deed, our boys did some harsh stuff but I for one will not judge them looking through the muddled glass of history. Stuff happens, we can only try and understand the thinking of the times.
It's called refusing surrender. ISIL does this regularly with prisoners they don't have the manpower/supplies/inclination to take care of. It happens in every war and always will.
I can tell you for a fact, in most African Bush Wars prisoners do not exist. They either agree to swap allegiance or they are just put down. They do this for the same reason ISIL does it. They just don't have the resources to take care of them and they certainly don't want to let them go and have them running around behind the lines regrouping and forming another front for them to defend.
We have all seen movies and read about the Axis powers killing prisoners. The Soviets wiped out most of the Polish officer cadre. The Germans killed troublesome excess prisoners at Malmedy. Then of course there was the Airborne group that were taken into a courtyard and shot.
It happens on a regular basis and for a very good reason. Some people can't live with that. Some don't want to know. I'm not saying it's right, just that sometimes it's necessary.
I can tell you for a fact, in most African Bush Wars prisoners do not exist. They either agree to swap allegiance or they are just put down. They do this for the same reason ISIL does it. They just don't have the resources to take care of them and they certainly don't want to let them go and have them running around behind the lines regrouping and forming another front for them to defend.
We have all seen movies and read about the Axis powers killing prisoners. The Soviets wiped out most of the Polish officer cadre. The Germans killed troublesome excess prisoners at Malmedy. Then of course there was the Airborne group that were taken into a courtyard and shot.
It happens on a regular basis and for a very good reason. Some people can't live with that. Some don't want to know. I'm not saying it's right, just that sometimes it's necessary.
In view of the history and the above comments, it throws a very bad light on the Semrau incident. I know this has been discussed before, but the comparison begs discussion.
The harshness of the Afghan war, the barbarity of the culture, and a host of other factors suggest that what has changed is the political aspect, the "optics" of the situation.
Our troops must be seen to be squeaky clean in a dirty war against an enemy that brutalizes it's own women and children and makes a media event out of slaughtering HUNDREDS of prisoners and other captives.
If the limited wars in the Middle East blow up into a major conflict, the Semrau court martial will not even be a blip on the screen of history, save as an act of political correctness in a time of war.
"Charging a man with murder over here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500." Martin Sheen - line from "Apocalypse Now"
The harshness of the Afghan war, the barbarity of the culture, and a host of other factors suggest that what has changed is the political aspect, the "optics" of the situation.
Our troops must be seen to be squeaky clean in a dirty war against an enemy that brutalizes it's own women and children and makes a media event out of slaughtering HUNDREDS of prisoners and other captives.
If the limited wars in the Middle East blow up into a major conflict, the Semrau court martial will not even be a blip on the screen of history, save as an act of political correctness in a time of war.
"Charging a man with murder over here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500." Martin Sheen - line from "Apocalypse Now"
Like the saying goes, "history is written by the victors". Had things gone differently I'm sure people would be talking about how horrible the Allies were and how noble and brave nazi soldiers were.
Semrau was a mentor/trainer for Afghan forces, and a bit of a hard charger. He had a tendency to push the Afghan troops and officers to do their job. I suspect he was thrown under the bus by one of the officers who was more interested in collecting bribes and sipping tea than doing the job of being a field officer, and Semrau was getting in the way of that.
If he had been leading Canadian troops at the time of the incident, I seriously doubt that anything would have come of it - whether or not they agreed with it, it is unlikely they would have ratted out one of their own.
1940 -1945
http://3.bp.########.com/-RcowZnPRMq4/VAk4_xRiB1I/AAAAAAABLKw/dQbTekLOWIM/s1600/Focke-Achgelis_223_Drache_Osprey_4.jpg
Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 way ahead of its time as a troop carrying helicopter, allied bombing and bad luck kept the Germans from producing it in any numbers. The one in the last pic was captured and flown across the channel to England in 45.
http://3.bp.########.com/-RcowZnPRMq4/VAk4_xRiB1I/AAAAAAABLKw/dQbTekLOWIM/s1600/Focke-Achgelis_223_Drache_Osprey_4.jpg
Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 way ahead of its time as a troop carrying helicopter, allied bombing and bad luck kept the Germans from producing it in any numbers. The one in the last pic was captured and flown across the channel to England in 45.
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A friend of mine is an ex-test pilot for the Canadian air force. He knew Hanna Reisch. He told me about a conversation he had with her about her first helicopter flight. No idea what would really happen when she got it off the ground. She said it took 5 minutes before she understood how the control inputs would affect the attitude of the machine. Amazing lady. Different times.
1940 -1945
http://3.bp.########.com/-RcowZnPRMq4/VAk4_xRiB1I/AAAAAAABLKw/dQbTekLOWIM/s1600/Focke-Achgelis_223_Drache_Osprey_4.jpg
Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 way ahead of its time as a troop carrying helicopter, allied bombing and bad luck kept the Germans from producing it in any numbers. The one in the last pic was captured and flown across the channel to England in 45.
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
"Captured American equipment in Belgrade museum"
Propaganda or taboo subject?
This appears to be not propaganda - story at following link:
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=42986
Propaganda or taboo subject?
This appears to be not propaganda - story at following link:
http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=42986
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Yes. That was my impression from reading "The Taliban Don't Wave". The ANA wouldn't know how to press such a charge, assuming they gave a pile of camel dung in the first place.
- Location
- West Quebec
One of the oddest looking class of the pre-dreadnaught battleships.
Maybe they were trying to disguise it...
