Picture of the day
- Thread starter jwhc
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Hey, if you're the US of A, you're simply invincible, especially fighting what is a Third world army
There is a counter for every weapon ever invented.Grizz
Hey, if you're the US of A, you're simply invincible, especially fighting what is a Third world army
The fact that a SAM design from circa 1961, exploiting a radar from circa 1970, can bring down a stealthy attack aircraft in 1999 is proof enough that no one is invincible.
Operation Linebacker 2 during the Vietnam War suffered from similar problems of repetive tactics ordered by headquarters staff. The result was heavy B-52 losses. I seem to recall that a field officer sidelined his career by implementing different tactics and overwhelming the NVA defences. Headquarters staff were not impressed by being shown up by a subordinate however.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Speaking of the bombing of North Vietnam...
If what I've read is accurate, the F-105 was the largest single-crewed aircraft ever fielded by the USAF.
If what I've read is accurate, the F-105 was the largest single-crewed aircraft ever fielded by the USAF.
I flew C-46 for a couple of years. Got it on my licence as the CW20. Very intimidating airplane. We loaded 14,000lbs of cargo uphill several times per day.
The R2800 was an 18 cylinder with 2000hp and the props were 14 feet across. On takeoff you could feel all your organs jiggling around inside. We flew into 2700 foot gravel strips at night with that beast.
One of the ones I flew airlifted cargo over the Burma hump and then flew service for Lufthansa after the war. Great memories. I could write a book.
Being predictable is always a problem in wartime. Warfighters want to repeat strategies and tactics that have proven themselves before, and/or stick to the practices and procedures that have been drilled into them during training and exercises. Which is all well and good, up to a point.
(My post that you quoted was made in response to the claim that F-117 pilots believed their stealth made them 'invisible', a claim which holds no water.)
My bad, I mistook your post to be the last in the series about being predictable and no USAF officer would be foolish enough to repeat past mistakes.
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
Spare a thought for the USS Shaw. She had a royal beeyotch of a war.
Trim wee thing. Once they worked the major kinks out of her, she transferred to the Pacific, arriving at Pearl Harbour for some additional work.
You've all seen this picture:
That fireworks display is the forward magazine of the Shaw redistributing itself across a wide area. Once the fire was out, here's what she looked like:
Makes one wonder how (or why) they'd fix that, but fix it they did, welding up a nasty origami-looking temporary nose onto her:
She schlumped back across the Pacific with her fresh rhinoplasty and set up in San Francisco for additional "physiotherapy".
By August of '42 (!) she was ready to go again.
She had an active war - sunk some barges, was hit by kamikaze, whanged into uncharted undersea geography and tore herself up pretty good - and returned to the US August '45 for repairs and upgrades.
Once that was done, it was off to the east coast for October. She was decommissioned and scrapped by July of '46.
Tough little boat, that one.
Trim wee thing. Once they worked the major kinks out of her, she transferred to the Pacific, arriving at Pearl Harbour for some additional work.
You've all seen this picture:
That fireworks display is the forward magazine of the Shaw redistributing itself across a wide area. Once the fire was out, here's what she looked like:
Makes one wonder how (or why) they'd fix that, but fix it they did, welding up a nasty origami-looking temporary nose onto her:
She schlumped back across the Pacific with her fresh rhinoplasty and set up in San Francisco for additional "physiotherapy".
By August of '42 (!) she was ready to go again.
She had an active war - sunk some barges, was hit by kamikaze, whanged into uncharted undersea geography and tore herself up pretty good - and returned to the US August '45 for repairs and upgrades.
Once that was done, it was off to the east coast for October. She was decommissioned and scrapped by July of '46.
Tough little boat, that one.
Last edited:
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Speaking of the bombing of North Vietnam...
If what I've read is accurate, the F-105 was the largest single-crewed aircraft ever fielded by the USAF.
Yup they were big and made a resounding "THUD" when they hit the ridge on the way to Hanoi. The ThUD was another aircraft that suffered unnecessarily hi losses from the repetitive use of well established route-pac mission design.
Variants
F-105G on display at American Legion Post, Blissfield, Michigan
YF-105A
Two pre-production prototypes with P&W J57 engine model.[102]
YF-105B
Four pre-production aircraft with P&W J75 engine.[102]
F-105B
Initial production model with AN/APN-105 navigational radar, 71 built.[102]
JF-105B
Test aircraft built from re-allocated RF-105B airframes; three built.[102]
RF-105B
Proposed reconnaissance version of the F-105B; none built. Three were ordered but completed as JF-105Bs.[102]
F-105C
Proposed dual-control trainer; canceled in 1957, none built.[9]
F-105D
The definitive production model, all-weather capability because of advanced avionics, including AN/APN-131 navigational radar; 610 built.[63][103]
RF-105D
Proposed reconnaissance version of the F-105D; none built.[102]
F-105E
Proposed trainer version of F-105D; cancelled in 1959, none completed.[104]
F-105F
Two-seat trainer version of F-105D with lengthened forward fuselage. It was fully combat-capable and had dual controls, taller fin, and increased takeoff weight; its first flight took place on 11 June 1963. A total of 143 were built.[23] It featured the AN/APN-148 navigational radar.[citation needed]
EF-105F
Initial designation for a Wild Weasel/SEAD version, 54 converted from F-105Fs.[102]
F-105G
Two-seat Wild Weasel/SEAD improved version of EF-105F conversions.[27] The variant used the AN/APN-196 navigational radar.[citation needed]
F-105G on display at American Legion Post, Blissfield, Michigan
YF-105A
Two pre-production prototypes with P&W J57 engine model.[102]
YF-105B
Four pre-production aircraft with P&W J75 engine.[102]
F-105B
Initial production model with AN/APN-105 navigational radar, 71 built.[102]
JF-105B
Test aircraft built from re-allocated RF-105B airframes; three built.[102]
RF-105B
Proposed reconnaissance version of the F-105B; none built. Three were ordered but completed as JF-105Bs.[102]
F-105C
Proposed dual-control trainer; canceled in 1957, none built.[9]
F-105D
The definitive production model, all-weather capability because of advanced avionics, including AN/APN-131 navigational radar; 610 built.[63][103]
RF-105D
Proposed reconnaissance version of the F-105D; none built.[102]
F-105E
Proposed trainer version of F-105D; cancelled in 1959, none completed.[104]
F-105F
Two-seat trainer version of F-105D with lengthened forward fuselage. It was fully combat-capable and had dual controls, taller fin, and increased takeoff weight; its first flight took place on 11 June 1963. A total of 143 were built.[23] It featured the AN/APN-148 navigational radar.[citation needed]
EF-105F
Initial designation for a Wild Weasel/SEAD version, 54 converted from F-105Fs.[102]
F-105G
Two-seat Wild Weasel/SEAD improved version of EF-105F conversions.[27] The variant used the AN/APN-196 navigational radar.[citation needed]
Spare a thought for the USS Shaw. She had a royal beeyotch of a war.
Trim wee thing. Once they worked the major kinks out of her, she transferred to the Pacific, arriving at Pearl Harbour for some additional work.
You've all seen this picture:
That fireworks display is the forward magazine of the Shaw redistributing itself across a wide area. Once the fire was out, here's what she looked like:
Makes one wonder how (or why) they'd fix that, but fix it they did, welding up a nasty origami-looking temporary nose onto her:
She schlumped back across the Pacific with her fresh rhinoplasty and set up in San Francisco for additional "physiotherapy".
By August of '42 (!) she was ready to go again.
She had an active war - sunk some barges, was hit by kamikaze, whanged into uncharted undersea geography and tore herself up pretty good - and returned to the US August '45 for repairs and upgrades.
Once that was done, it was off to the east coast for October. She was decommissioned and scrapped by July of '46.
Tough little boat, that one.
Why did they rebuild her?
It is still easier and cheaper to rebuild a ship that start from scratch. Uses less time and materials. Remember most of the battleships sunk at Pearl Harbour were also put back in service. If I remember correctly only the Arizona was beyond repair. It is truely amazing what the ship repair yards managed to do during the second world war.
HMS Eskimo:
Eskimo participated in the Second Battle of Narvik in April 1940.[2] On 12 April, Eskimo was hit by a torpedo fired from German destroyer Z2 Georg Thiele. The explosion caused severe damage, blowing off Eskimo's bow.[3] After temporary repairs by the shipwrights of the fleet repair ship Vindictive at Skjelfjorden in Norway,[4] Eskimo was able to return to the Vickers-Armstrong works at Newcastle for rebuilding.[5]
She supported the Allied landings in North Africa in November 1942 and served with the 10th Destroyer Flotilla at Plymouth. Eskimo was extensively damaged when two German dive bombers attacked her in the Mediterranean while taking part in Operation Husky.[5] She cornered and sank the enemy German submarine U-971 while in company with the Canadian destroyer Haida and a Liberator aircraft of the Czech air force in the English Channel north of Brest on 24 June 1944.[6] During the final days of the war, she operated in the Far East.
Eskimo participated in the Second Battle of Narvik in April 1940.[2] On 12 April, Eskimo was hit by a torpedo fired from German destroyer Z2 Georg Thiele. The explosion caused severe damage, blowing off Eskimo's bow.[3] After temporary repairs by the shipwrights of the fleet repair ship Vindictive at Skjelfjorden in Norway,[4] Eskimo was able to return to the Vickers-Armstrong works at Newcastle for rebuilding.[5]
She supported the Allied landings in North Africa in November 1942 and served with the 10th Destroyer Flotilla at Plymouth. Eskimo was extensively damaged when two German dive bombers attacked her in the Mediterranean while taking part in Operation Husky.[5] She cornered and sank the enemy German submarine U-971 while in company with the Canadian destroyer Haida and a Liberator aircraft of the Czech air force in the English Channel north of Brest on 24 June 1944.[6] During the final days of the war, she operated in the Far East.
I really dont understand the economics of scrapping ships, even after the war. Its not like repair and maintenance is more costly than building from scratch. how many people would love a short cruise on a converted cruiser? can DDs not be converted for fishing or something? Parts were never off the shelf items, so that is a moot point, new motors can be retrofitted if need be.It just seems so wasteful to me.
Metal fatigue.
Bouncing around the open ocean, ships twist and torque themselves a fair bit. A great deal more than most people realize. You can bend a piece of metal only so many times before it snaps.
There comes a point in any metal ship's life where it truly does become more expensive to try and track down and re-enforce all the fatigued metal, than it is to simply cut it up and send the bits back to the smelter to make fresh metal for a new ship.
Things change. Changes and advances that come with new propulsion systems, new weapons, new sensors often require a new hull footprint. You can only add or swap so much before it becomes a losing proposition.
Read up, especially on the Clemenceau.
https://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/20...-aircraft-carriers-cruisers-military-vessels/
