Picture of the day
- Thread starter jwhc
- Start date
Our Father who art in heaven= "Unser Vater Du bist im Himmel" Smellie?
Courcellette was September 15, 1916.
First Tank attack. The VERY first.
"A" Company, 5th Battalion, Canadian Mounted Rifles, followed one of the 2 Canadian-designated Mark I Tanks with very few casualties.
Said Captain George Dibblee (Sergeant at that time), "We had been told that we would be getting some 'special help' but nobody had told us what the 'special help' was to be. So when we saw this thing coming down the road at us, we didn't know what it was. But it was going in the right direction, so we fell in behind it. Up to then, I had never seen anything like it. It would get to a Jerry trench and move halfway across, then just hose down both sides, along the trench, with its machine-guns. When there was nothing left to shoot at, it would finish crossing that trench and go on to the next, stop in the middle of that one and do it all again. We took very few casualties that day."
Two weeks later, Sergeant Dibblee was to win a DCM, a field promotion to Lieutenant, a bullet-hole, a shrapnel-wound and a 5% Disability Pension in the First Assault at Regina Trench, only 3 miles away. It took the Government 56 years to send him his first Disability cheque (I saw it!).
I had an 8mm motion-picture projector with me the day he told me of this, and used it to show him a 5-minute small-format newsreel of the first Tanks in action. He started naming the men he recognised; they were all his old men from A Company, 5 CMR! And I didn't have a bloody PENCIL with me!
First Tank attack. The VERY first.
"A" Company, 5th Battalion, Canadian Mounted Rifles, followed one of the 2 Canadian-designated Mark I Tanks with very few casualties.
Said Captain George Dibblee (Sergeant at that time), "We had been told that we would be getting some 'special help' but nobody had told us what the 'special help' was to be. So when we saw this thing coming down the road at us, we didn't know what it was. But it was going in the right direction, so we fell in behind it. Up to then, I had never seen anything like it. It would get to a Jerry trench and move halfway across, then just hose down both sides, along the trench, with its machine-guns. When there was nothing left to shoot at, it would finish crossing that trench and go on to the next, stop in the middle of that one and do it all again. We took very few casualties that day."
Two weeks later, Sergeant Dibblee was to win a DCM, a field promotion to Lieutenant, a bullet-hole, a shrapnel-wound and a 5% Disability Pension in the First Assault at Regina Trench, only 3 miles away. It took the Government 56 years to send him his first Disability cheque (I saw it!).
I had an 8mm motion-picture projector with me the day he told me of this, and used it to show him a 5-minute small-format newsreel of the first Tanks in action. He started naming the men he recognised; they were all his old men from A Company, 5 CMR! And I didn't have a bloody PENCIL with me!
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Fascinating history Smellie not found in any book! To have someone say yes that's me or,.. I know him and him.... in old archived film we younger ones cherish. So much actual ground level experiences lost because alot spoke little of their Wartime exploits because no one back home really understood or perhaps even cared much and now they are all long gone. This is how so much mis-information has been passed down as Tribal Knowledge, not because the original orator's made more of themselves or their exploits than was actually the case, but that those hearing the stories put their own untrained/unkowing twist on it. Hence everyone's father was a sniper or a fighter pilot, even though they may have actually been RN or RCN! Some veterans even would relate the death camps like Aushuwitz, something they themselves had only learned many years after the war, and then people would say that they were there liberating the actual camps.
Just yesterday at work a friend aged 65, who had an Uncle killed at the Battle of Arras 14-4-17(Monchy-le-Preux for us newfs) a disaster for the 1st NFLD at the same time as the great Canadian Army victory just to the north at Vimy, was relating a story of someone he knew years previous and told of how he said he was involved in three of the biggest battles in WW2 as a Newfoundlander. Trying to put this story into perspective, I told him of Newfoundlands contribution to the military aspect of the war effort was more related to the Royal Navy, Royal air Force and the Artillery, not raising a Regiment like in the Great War for infantry. After some coaxing the story started to fall into place, maybe.
He mentioned Africa, hmmmm. Then he remembered something of Sicily,....my cousin was killed there during operation Husky onboard HMS Nubian.
I said was he Royal Navy? Well he said,.. he told of going in close to the beaches and told of rounds striking the boat, and he would return with more Infantry and bring out the wounded all under fire. So I'm guessing this chap was RN, served in landing craft and was at Operation Torch, Husky and possibly Overlord! Just my own conclusion, but it was alot more than we started with initially. Then maybe he was artillery landing in Africa with the 166th field regiment, RA. Still trying to bring up his name in archives to find his unit. So many things get mixed up when information falls on untrained ears.
Anyhow all that babble to show the great lost when peoples experiences are not written down or related at least to someone with knowledge in Military units and a little history of such.
This applies to me as well,I'll always remember my first conversation with an old cleaner in the DND building I was working in in 1980. A quiet man, rarely spoke, 65 at the time. Because of his age I asked if he was overseas during the War. He said yes. At the time I was very keen on the Bren, so I asked him if he used it or was he a rifleman. He said he had, but he was a Sergeant and carried a Thompson Sub-machine gun! Now I'm all ears. Years later,the black and white movie of a man moving inland during the Juno landings with his marching order and a Tommy gun, I always wondered if it was him, there was a resemblance. I just can't remember if he was 3rd Div( North Novas) or 1st Div in Italy( West Novies or Cape Breton Highlanders), at the time I was more keen on the weapons than the unit histories. The stories I'm sure I would have gleaned from him now and not when I was 19, so sad.
Just yesterday at work a friend aged 65, who had an Uncle killed at the Battle of Arras 14-4-17(Monchy-le-Preux for us newfs) a disaster for the 1st NFLD at the same time as the great Canadian Army victory just to the north at Vimy, was relating a story of someone he knew years previous and told of how he said he was involved in three of the biggest battles in WW2 as a Newfoundlander. Trying to put this story into perspective, I told him of Newfoundlands contribution to the military aspect of the war effort was more related to the Royal Navy, Royal air Force and the Artillery, not raising a Regiment like in the Great War for infantry. After some coaxing the story started to fall into place, maybe.
He mentioned Africa, hmmmm. Then he remembered something of Sicily,....my cousin was killed there during operation Husky onboard HMS Nubian.
I said was he Royal Navy? Well he said,.. he told of going in close to the beaches and told of rounds striking the boat, and he would return with more Infantry and bring out the wounded all under fire. So I'm guessing this chap was RN, served in landing craft and was at Operation Torch, Husky and possibly Overlord! Just my own conclusion, but it was alot more than we started with initially. Then maybe he was artillery landing in Africa with the 166th field regiment, RA. Still trying to bring up his name in archives to find his unit. So many things get mixed up when information falls on untrained ears.
Anyhow all that babble to show the great lost when peoples experiences are not written down or related at least to someone with knowledge in Military units and a little history of such.
This applies to me as well,I'll always remember my first conversation with an old cleaner in the DND building I was working in in 1980. A quiet man, rarely spoke, 65 at the time. Because of his age I asked if he was overseas during the War. He said yes. At the time I was very keen on the Bren, so I asked him if he used it or was he a rifleman. He said he had, but he was a Sergeant and carried a Thompson Sub-machine gun! Now I'm all ears. Years later,the black and white movie of a man moving inland during the Juno landings with his marching order and a Tommy gun, I always wondered if it was him, there was a resemblance. I just can't remember if he was 3rd Div( North Novas) or 1st Div in Italy( West Novies or Cape Breton Highlanders), at the time I was more keen on the weapons than the unit histories. The stories I'm sure I would have gleaned from him now and not when I was 19, so sad.
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
"Panzer Rollen in Afrika Vor!"
Dark Alley Dan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Darkest Edmonton
So quoth the Desert Fox!
Neat picture - colour pix always seem so strange, after having watched a bazillion episodes (counting repeats) of World At War and seeing black and white stuff almost exclusively.
Hell of a place to fight a war. Better than Russia in many ways I suppose, particularly in the spring and winter , but still...
Neat picture - colour pix always seem so strange, after having watched a bazillion episodes (counting repeats) of World At War and seeing black and white stuff almost exclusively.
Hell of a place to fight a war. Better than Russia in many ways I suppose, particularly in the spring and winter , but still...
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
^One of my classmates had a party over march break, it was still snowing that night! 
In any case, we went over to his Halifax flat, he had some family pics on the mantel of the fireplace. One of the pics was one of his grandfather in North Africa *8th army? Showed his grandfather posing by a knocked out german tank in the desert somewhere, looked like a Panzer III or IV, not sure if it had a 7.5 cm gun or a 5.0 cm gun, it was a long bore, no muzzle break, probably 5.0 cm. I mentioned to my classmate the tank was likely someone's grave and he concurred.
In any case, we went over to his Halifax flat, he had some family pics on the mantel of the fireplace. One of the pics was one of his grandfather in North Africa *8th army?
Showed his grandfather posing by a knocked out german tank in the desert somewhere, looked like a Panzer III or IV, not sure if it had a 7.5 cm gun or a 5.0 cm gun, it was a long bore, no muzzle break, probably 5.0 cm. I mentioned to my classmate the tank was likely someone's grave and he concurred.they usually only burn if they dont brew up, the best illustration i know of is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZTZmzM-Kw
a javelin doesnt make that kind of boom alone, but a loaded tank with a full tank of gas does
This photo was in a recent read; Armoured Odessey, 8th Royal Tank Regiment in The Western Desert, by Stuart Hamilton MC. If a man was wounded in a tank with a broken arm or leg he was likely unable to extricate himself and would die a horrible death. My uncle was a tank fitter from Normandy thru to the end in Germany and used to talk about having to scrape human remains out of knocked out Shermans before repairing them. I think he used to tell me about this just to remind me that life in the armoured corps wasn't all about parades and pretty girls. If a tank didn't burn it was often salvageable and they would do things like salvaging a turret from a tank with a non-repairable hull and installing it on another tank with a destroyed turret, but sound hull.A captured 2pdr. AT gun on a portee. Is the vehicle a captured one as well?
Next one is a little gruesome.
In those days they didn't have Javelins and other fun toys; they generally relied on old-fashioned kinetic-energy rounds just to hit the thing and knock a hole straight through the armour-plate. That would usually provide enough heat to set something going.
The gas-powered Sherman was also called (by the tankers) the "Ronson" after the famous cigarette lighter and its advertising slogan: "Light every time!". Generally, on being hit, you had 3 seconds to get out.
We trained on the Diesel-powered Sherman rebuilds in the early '60s, but our Instructors were all guys who had served in Africa, Italy and North-West Europe nd thy all had just bags and bags of combat experience. They were more than a bit fond of the Diesel-powered tanks and let us know that they took fire on being hit with a KE round ONLY 60% of the time! And you had a whole FIVE seconds to get out. Our training was rather informal but VERY high-pressure; this was just after the Cuban thing and folks were just a TINY bit paranoid, you might say.
Tony, if it was a North African photo, I think the tank would have been a Panzer III with the 50mm gun. Thy did have a fair number of those in that theatre. I could be wrong (I actually WAS wrong once, you know, but that was in 1968) but I believe that the only Panzer IVs used in North Africa were the early models with the short 75. I do stand to be corrected on this, though. Gentlemen?
The gas-powered Sherman was also called (by the tankers) the "Ronson" after the famous cigarette lighter and its advertising slogan: "Light every time!". Generally, on being hit, you had 3 seconds to get out.
We trained on the Diesel-powered Sherman rebuilds in the early '60s, but our Instructors were all guys who had served in Africa, Italy and North-West Europe nd thy all had just bags and bags of combat experience. They were more than a bit fond of the Diesel-powered tanks and let us know that they took fire on being hit with a KE round ONLY 60% of the time! And you had a whole FIVE seconds to get out. Our training was rather informal but VERY high-pressure; this was just after the Cuban thing and folks were just a TINY bit paranoid, you might say.
Tony, if it was a North African photo, I think the tank would have been a Panzer III with the 50mm gun. Thy did have a fair number of those in that theatre. I could be wrong (I actually WAS wrong once, you know, but that was in 1968) but I believe that the only Panzer IVs used in North Africa were the early models with the short 75. I do stand to be corrected on this, though. Gentlemen?
here you go, an excerpt from the wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_IV#Western_Front_and_North_Africa_.281939.E2.80.931942.29
Although the Panzer IV was deployed to North Africa with the German Afrika Korps, until the longer gun variant began production, the tank was outperformed by the Panzer III with respect to armor penetration.[72] Both the Panzer III and IV had difficulty in penetrating the British Matilda II's thick armor, while the Matilda's 40-mm QF 2 pounder gun could knock out either German tank; its major disadvantage was its low speed.[73] By August 1942, Rommel had only received 27 Panzer IV Ausf. F2s, armed with the L/43 gun, which he deployed to spearhead his armored offensives.[73] The longer gun could penetrate all American and British tanks in theater at ranges of up to 1,500 m (4,900 ft).[74] Although more of these tanks arrived in North Africa between August and October 1942, their numbers were insignificant compared to the amount of matériel shipped to British forces.[75]
Couldn't resist:
Man, that driver must have been going a fair clip when he hit that tree, huh? Probably drunk, to have managed to clip the only tree within 10 miles? And the Old Timers all said "Boy, they sure don't build tanks like they used to..."
