pistol stance

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hampster123

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Hi all,

I recently l got into handguns and picked up a Glock 17. After a few times at the range I find I can't get a tight enough grouping. I know this is not a rifle but the reports i've had on the g17 It should fairly accurate at 25yards. Ive been haveing over a foot group. I've tried different ammo with same results. I believe I need to work on my stance and grip

I was wondering if anyone can offer any advice or point me to a website that can help me along with my stance and grip and hopefully put an end to these embarrassing trips to the range.

Thanks guys,
 
I recently had the same experience and I have done lots of researching about proper pistol grips.

I think my problem was losing the front sight, the front sight should be in clear focus with the background slightly fuzzed. Shoot with both eyes open as well.

I am still in practice though so take it for what its worth
 
There is no one single best stance that's going to fix all that ails you.

That being said, you need to start somewhere.

My suggestion is a modified isosceles. Feet square to the target. Shoulders slightly forward of the hips. Head slightly lowered. Weak hand used to overlap and support the strong hand.

More important than the stance, be aware of your grip and trigger placement.
 
ahem... no one mentioned...

"JUST STARTING" and "25yard", that's you problem mate, start at 10m, then work your way up.
 
charles.emond said:
ahem... no one mentioned...

"JUST STARTING" and "25yard", that's you problem mate, start at 10m, then work your way up.
Click to expand...

I will have the same problem, my clubs handgun range only allows 25m and 50m setups. Nothing else......Stupid? Yes.....but until I change its all I got
 
If you're just starting and getting close to 1 ft. groups at 25 yds that's not embarassing. Just practice, practice, practice. Have fun.
 
hampster123 said:
Hi all,

I recently l got into handguns and picked up a Glock 17. After a few times at the range I find I can't get a tight enough grouping. I know this is not a rifle but the reports i've had on the g17 It should fairly accurate at 25yards. Ive been haveing over a foot group. I've tried different ammo with same results. I believe I need to work on my stance and grip

I was wondering if anyone can offer any advice or point me to a website that can help me along with my stance and grip and hopefully put an end to these embarrassing trips to the range.

Thanks guys,
Click to expand...

You are probably outshooting most police officers if you can consistantly shoot 12" groups at 25 yards. I suspect you are shooting as good as a lot of guys on this board. What are the design limits for the Glock 17?

Take Care

Bob
 
stance

Hampster

Try a modified Weaver stance as well as the isoceles. To get there ....

Assume an off hand rifle position with an imaginary rifle. Now bring the hands together in your two handed grip, thumb of the supporting hand reinforcing the thumb of the gripping hand, elbow of the supporting arm low to prevent the arm from waving around during recoil.
If possible, 'cheek' your face on the strong arm as in a rifle 'stock weld'. May not be comfortable at first, but it works.

This works well with both autos and revolvers, the final grip determined by the gun's grip design.

People with large chests and supporting 'front porch' can make contact on the body with the elbow of the supporting hand and be a solid gun platform.
This may be more comfortable for some as the elbow of the shooting arm is slightly bent.

Practice both positions in front of a mirror WITH A PROVEN UNLOADED GUN!!!
Pivoting at the waist allows a 270* arc of fire. Do a lot of 'wall hanging', focusing on the front sight above all else, both eyes open. Commercials on TV are a GREAT way to learn fast target acquisiton - again, WITH A PROVEN UNLOADED GUN!!! And a sympathetic spouse.

Develop a little guardian angel who sits on your shoulder tapping you on the back of the head saying over and over again - "Front sight, stupid, front sight ...."
 
Based on my experience over the years, Weaver (modified or otherwise) lets me shoot more accurately than Isoceles (modified or otherwise) at longer distances when time is not an issue. I got my start in handguns shooting IHMSA handgun silhouette out to 200m. The Weaver stance also seems to allow me to deal with heavy recoil better than Isoceles. That being said, I find Isoceles much more suited to action-shooting disciplines where a quick second shot is needed. The muzzle climb is easier to control, and the gun comes back on target much quicker.

I also wouldn't settle for 12" groups at 25yds. My stock Glock 34 shoots 3" groups if I do my part. Get out and practice working on fundamentals of trigger control and breathing. Take your time and give every shot your best effort. Lots of time for speed later on. It takes much longer to unlearn incorrect fundamentals later on than it does to learn correct ones at the outset.
 
stance:
face the target squarely
place your feet shoulder width apart
distribute your weight evenly on both feet
keep your body erect but not stiff
relax your muscles
extend both arms fully

grip:
firm but not so tight that the muscles tremble
dominant hand well up on the back strap
use the maximum pressure from front to rear
support hand wrapped around the dominant hand
60% of the grip pressure should be in the support hand
trigger finger should contact trigger before first knuckle
 
This book is outstanding.
beyondf.jpg
 
The Jarret video on youtube has already been posted. This is the other tidbit that I found a link to in some forum that I found helped.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/

Try some slight variations to what they are saying until it feels like the gun is sunk down deep in your grip and your hands feel like they share a full 360 contact around the grip. If you can feel any sort of significant gap you're not doing it right. The strong hand will leave a bit of a gap between the heel of the hand and the fingertips. that gap is where the fleshy heel of the support hand wants to fit down into. The other bit I found helped was the strong hand gripping back to front and the support hand gripping side to side to force the strong hand into better contact. I know that I thought I was doing it right before but once I slightly altered my grip in accordance with the hints in the linked article and repeated above my groupings got a bit smaller and my ability to quickly get the sights back on target after a shot improved a lot.

The last bit that is standard that you may not know about is to lightly push your two hands together while at the same time pushing forward with the strong hand while pulling back with the support hand. The isometric muscle tension created this way locks your arms into a more steady grip than if they are just hanging out there holding the gun. Don't use enough force that your arms get tired. Just enough that there's some tension between your two arms. This is mentioned in the article but I don't think the writer stressed it enough. I was doing the front to back push-pull but when I combined it with the side to side tension to pinch the grips between my hands I found a bit more improvement.
 
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You stated that you are just getting into pistol shooting and you are having problems finding the front sight. That is alright. It takes time and range time to train your eyes to find that sight as you are shooting.

1. Find your master eye, shoot with both eyes open with a slightly stronger orientation of the sights to your master eye's side. This will help you to find the sight.

2. Front sight, front sight, front sight...

3. Work your trigger prep into your recoil management; firing only when you have aligned the sights. This will reduce the disturbance of the trigger squeeze on your shot.

4. Grip your pistol with your strong hand like a firm hand shake. Your support hand should cradle the gun supporting the strong hand. The thumbs should be aligned and onthe axis towards down range.

5. Take a course! Find a Mentor. In lieu of experience, An experienced teacher is best!
6. This is for shooting fast. Stance is not as important as the big three: Grip, sight alignment, and trigger control. It is the 2/3 rule. If you have two of those three, you will hit your target. 'Stance is a luxury'
 
firing stance

hampster

You're getting a lot of good advice from experienced shooters about what works for them. You're going to have to find out what works for you. At this point, some personal coaching and video taping would be invaluable. Even action stills from a digital camera.

If you can, take an IPSC 'Black Badge' course, even if you have no intentions of competing. It will make you a better, safer gun handler.

One last tip -

Grip the ground with your toes through the soles of your shoes. This will put tension on the muscles of your legs and keep your knees from flexing. Bend forward slightly from the waist, leaning into the gun. Some people can shoot well with bent knees, I can't.
Obviously, this works for 'stand & shoot' or 'shoot & scoot' applications.
Firing on the move is the next level, but we are discussing the basics here.

Above all - "front sight, stupid, front sight ...."
 
Thanks Guys for all the great tips. I need to find the time to get out there and put these to the test. I'll pass along what seems to work best for me and how tight I can group.

Cheers,

Hampster
 
Or...get a laser :D It helps to dry fire with one to see if you're flinching.

Ignore the snobby looks you may get from some range members when they see you using it. LOL!
 
As a new handgun shooter myself I have no advice to offer, but 12" groups at 25 yards is nothing to be too ashamed of first time out. It took me an hour to get down to 3" groups... at 5 yards :/
 
With a glock make sure you take up trigger slack before you break the shot off. "slapping" the trigger will open up your grouping alot.
 
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