Place of birth needed for Ammo purchase ?

FatCatsDad said:
Buying local ...within a 3 hr drive is becoming my preference where a flash of the PAL like the old days is good enough.

I dont call the ministry of transportation everytime someone borrows my truck to see if their drivers license is valid.

What's the point of a license if you have to call the RCMP every two weeks when you buy somthing related to your hobby.
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Because it’s all about control Dave…..:(

The Liberal b@g-lickers want to discourage firearms ownership in Canada. They think by making it extremely difficult to buy ammo, parts, magazines, etc, they will cause gun owners to throw in the towel.

It’s kind of like the eighties when we had to obtain a ATT every time we wanted to go to the shooting range with our restricted firearms.

The more control the current corrupt government puts on its people, the more pissed off folks get. Maybe they want someone to snap, so they can say see, we can’t trust Canadians with guns.

The bottom line is our Canadian hunting and shooting sports industry is under attack. The Liberals are eventually coming for all our guns. It’s the only way for them to have complete control, and the only way they will feel safe….:(

It’s not about Public Safety, it never has been.
The wealthy elitists groups want full control with no civilian firearms ownership.

Alan Rock and other left wing extremists have been preparing this for many decades. It’s difficult to enslave the minions when they have firearms to protect themselves from tyranny.

A sh1t-storm is coming for all gun owners in Canada….:(

Anyone who thinks differently is an absolute idiot!
 
Janeau said:
And it cost what to give it to a dealer who sell gun & ammo ? This is just being anal and stubborn for no purpose other than being a jerk. They don’t make the laws…and like us..have to live with that crap more time a day than anybody else.
You call all try to defend not providing it..it’s just childish and can add quite a bit of other world for such behavior that have no justification.
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It costs my time right now to figure out you are stupid.
 
Thunderhog said:
Welcome to Chinada 45.

Yes, lot’s of idiots that own/sell guns….:(

A bunch of the same losers here on Gunnutz I’m afraid too.

They seem to be multiplying like rats. Rats and corrupt Liberals are of the same genetics anyway.

I too walk away from these fools, at least when I encounter them….:(
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Yep, I had one here a while ago who wanted everything but my first born. Way over the top. He got huffy when I said nope..
 
Bfranklin said:
I don't get the eagerness to go above and beyond the requirements of the law. Where does this type of mentality come from?
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Yep, some of these places come across as pathetic with there extra “store policies” that go way above even what our corrupt government wants. Oh well, another store to not give my business to..
 
MosinMan13 said:
Devils advocate here, honest question, after filling out your current address and billing details, what specifically about your place (specifically city) of birth that concerns you as sensitive information?
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It's another proof of identity, like your mother's maiden name. Another bit of information to take over your life and destroy it. Also no one's damn business, but whatever, they don't even ask it on a firearm purchase anymore.
 
Big Bad said:
It's another proof of identity, like your mother's maiden name. Another bit of information to take over your life and destroy it. Also no one's damn business, but whatever, they don't even ask it on a firearm purchase anymore.
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I guess kind of, but it is their business in a literal sense, and this is the way they want to verify sales. If they took your money, and then demanded more sensitive information after the fact I could see this being largely a problem, but they make it pretty clear before you buy, what they want for ID. If you don’t like it, you really don’t have to buy from them.

So far as this being like a mother maiden name, I don’t totally buy that, you can narrow down an identity a lot by someone’s mothers maiden name and it’s a common identifier, but the city your were born in is a little vague and useless so far as sensitive information goes. The city I was born in has two new hospitals currently and the one I was born as hasn’t existed for some time, literally the only use that city has is tied to my PAL which I only use when making firearm related purchases.

So far as taking over your life, again you already give them all your payment info, address, you’re likely paying digitally so really anything you’re buying, selling, googling, they can already access just about most peoples lives.

I just think getting bent out of shape over a voluntary detail so inconsequential, whilst being chest deep in a digital surveillance state for the last decade or more, is a little like slamming the barn doors after the horses are gone.
 
MosinMan13 said:
I guess kind of, but it is their business in a literal sense, and this is the way they want to verify sales. If they took your money, and then demanded more sensitive information after the fact I could see this being largely a problem, but they make it pretty clear before you buy, what they want for ID. If you don’t like it, you really don’t have to buy from them.

So far as this being like a mother maiden name, I don’t totally buy that, you can narrow down an identity a lot by someone’s mothers maiden name and it’s a common identifier, but the city your were born in is a little vague and useless so far as sensitive information goes. The city I was born in has two new hospitals currently and the one I was born as hasn’t existed for some time, literally the only use that city has is tied to my PAL which I only use when making firearm related purchases.

So far as taking over your life, again you already give them all your payment info, address, you’re likely paying digitally so really anything you’re buying, selling, googling, they can already access just about most peoples lives.

I just think getting bent out of shape over a voluntary detail so inconsequential, whilst being chest deep in a digital surveillance state for the last decade or more, is a little like slamming the barn doors after the horses are gone.
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The other thing is that some of us are fed up with the “it’s just another small piece of information so why care” nonsense. Some of these businesses seem to be going out of their way to add information they don’t need to make a purchase from them. It’s almost like they are storing it for the government’s future use..
 
Jon9021 said:
The other thing is that some of us are fed up with the “it’s just another small piece of information so why care” nonsense. Some of these businesses seem to be going out of their way to add information they don’t need to make a purchase from them. It’s almost like they are storing it for the government’s future use..
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Valid, but again this small piece of info has always been pertinent and part of the ID in question, and maybe it’s unnecessary, but it’s their terms of business, the ultimate form of protest is support other businesses that have fair practices? Plenty of competitors, both local and nationally speaking that have great selection and price.

As for the government, again they already have that info, and if you think they need your city of birth to track your movements whilst you shop online for controlled products, you’ve really missed the bigger picture. I’m not pro-government or pro-surveillance by a long shot, but I am realistic, they already have all the info they could possibly want from you and then some, we’ve been giving it up voluntarily one way or another for years.
 
What exactly happens when a store, or anyone, "runs" our PAL/RPAL with the CFO/RCMP? Is there a record of what is being purchased or sold? Or is it just a record of a 'ping' between two licences?

If the latter, how is it helpful to the cops to understand that person a and person b had a transaction for 'something' on such and such a date?
 
MosinMan13 said:
Valid, but again this small piece of info has always been pertinent and part of the ID in question, and maybe it’s unnecessary, but it’s their terms of business, the ultimate form of protest is support other businesses that have fair practices? Plenty of competitors, both local and nationally speaking that have great selection and price.

As for the government, again they already have that info, and if you think they need your city of birth to track your movements whilst you shop online for controlled products, you’ve really missed the bigger picture. I’m not pro-government or pro-surveillance by a long shot, but I am realistic, they already have all the info they could possibly want from you and then some, we’ve been giving it up voluntarily one way or another for years.
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Its new, it wasn't required for my last purchase.
Its not required by law.
Giving in to a stores demand without questions is weak.
Would you happily turn over other info, maybe going forward they want your intimate partners consent for a purchase or a recent psych. evaluation.

Over reach won't stop if its not questioned and protested.
 
Painkillers said:
What exactly happens when a store, or anyone, "runs" our PAL/RPAL with the CFO/RCMP? Is there a record of what is being purchased or sold? Or is it just a record of a 'ping' between two licences?

If the latter, how is it helpful to the cops to understand that person a and person b had a transaction for 'something' on such and such a date?
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Ontario keeps a record of type and quantity of ammo, but that's not a firearms act requirement, its a different government entity.

Thank the NDP and Bob Rae for that.

What is purchased on a PAL check privately is not recorded, there are no laws requiring you or I to keep records.

Stores ARE required to document firearms sales and are subject to CFO looking at them whenever requested.

Also remember that a PAL check does not mean a transaction took place....maybe you changed your mind, seller didn't show up, etc
 
FatCatsDad said:
Its new, it wasn't required for my last purchase.
Its not required by law.
Giving in to a stores demand without questions is weak.
Would you happily turn over other info, maybe going forward they want your intimate partners consent for a purchase or a recent psych. evaluation.

Over reach won't stop if its not questioned and protested.
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Right but is it actually over reach? What’s the reach here other than “it’s different than last week”

That’s a fallacy in your next point, there’s a huge difference between getting third and fourth party involved to evaluate if you’re competent to make a purchase, and being asked to provide the same identifying phrase that you use to validate the very license which proves your competency in the first place.
 
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Bfranklin said:
I don't get the eagerness to go above and beyond the requirements of the (corrupt) law. Where does this type of mentality come from?
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Forgive me for the addition above.

That is a very good question.
The very kind of people that turned in their neighbors for having a bible illegally. Or hiding a Jewish family illegally.

They are either very frightened of accidentally disobeying the regime, or perhaps want to feel powerful imagining they are participating in the regime's enforcement.

In any case, they are very small, pathetic rabbit people.
 
Janeau said:
I don’t understand why everybody get up in arms over a stupid thing like writing your place of birth that is already on your PAL. On top of it - most put in the CC infos without fear of anything. A bunch of you are anal about providing infos thats already in the book with the GRC. This is just stupid.
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Because place of birth ISN'T on your PAL or required for the PAL check.

So it is them requiring more info than legally required and many could see this as data mining for fraud.

But hey if you want to give out more than you need. My SIN #, banking info, contact info etc is all on the dark web because, Nova Scotia Power was hacked, Over 200,000 customers info was taken including mine, and they could not explain why they stored people SIN numbers.

But hey thanks for the 2 years of identity protection that I cannot even access.
 
Jon9021 said:
Yep, I had one here a while ago who wanted everything but my first born. Way over the top. He got huffy when I said nope..
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Years ago I encountered a guy who had an HK 94 carbine for sale at a gun show. The nut case wanted to be responsible and interview the prospective buyer to be sure the new owner would not do any kind of harm, ever, with "his" HK...

I think it was a case of projection...he didn't trust himself. A mental illness problem.

I was happy to tell him what I thought of his working for the government for free and walked away with my pocket still full of money.
 
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