Please help Lee Enfield Mark III keyholing

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Petten709

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Just got a Lee Enfield mark three handed down to me by my grandfather the rifles and hard shape and I put in some solid time restoring it, just got out on the range today to shoot it for the first time, Completely missed the target at 50+ yards and once I move to 25 yards and finally got some to hit I realized The target looked a tad bit strange, the uniformity of the holes are pointing in the same direction in the shape of a bullet lead me to think that she's keyholing, pulled one of the bullets I was shooting to take a picture for you guys as well as the targets. Just want what can be done to fix this tried pressing the bullet through the muzzle and it only goes about one third of the way leading me to think the Boar nice and tight as well the rifling is clean after 10 rounds. Re-crowning maybe? Finally turning the legal hunting age out here, and want to knock down my first moose with my grandfather's gun. Any input is appreciated .


 
The .303 is notorious for bore size. It is reported the actual bore can be anywhere from 0.308" to 0.318". A starting point would be to slug the barrel to determine what you are dealing with.

Slugging a Surplus Rifle Barrel

As far as I know the largest bullet you can get however is the 0.312 ones from Hornady. Not sure about any factory loads of the larger bullets. It would also help to get a lighter bullet.

Not too much to go on, but it would seem your bullets are not getting a full spin, which would suggest a small bullet, or large bore.
 
Try some factory loads. If you are using someone's reloads, any chance they are .308" diameter rather than the proper .311 diameter? Either way you could not push a slug into the bore with your fingers...
 
Hard to tell from the pics but it looks like the rifling is non existent or you have a heavily fouled bore. Plug the bore and get some foaming Wipe out bore cleaner and let it sit overnight. Give it a few passes with a new .303 brass brush( do not use stainless), If rifling starts to show up repeat the process.
Your barrel could be copper fouled, lead fouled, totally shot out, or heavy throat erosion. If you do find that the rifling is still there then your next step would be to slug the bore.
Shooting a .308 projectile down a .316 bore just doesn't work.
 
Clean it first. If it is full of crud a good cleaning will help. If it has a oversize bore you can cast over size bullets. A re-barrel will cost you $ to the tune of $250.00+. I can't tell from your pics if your crown is pooched. The first pic has a shadow but the other 2 seem to be OK.
 
Petten709 said:
So in short what are my options here? Recrown, rebarrel, or get into reloading? Anyone in Canada make decent barrels for these guns?
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Not very likely it is just your crown. Your issues are more serious than that. Measure the bullet of a loaded round as close to the case as you can. Also try putting the bullet end of the loaded cartridge into the muzzle. Again, it shouldn't fit into the bore. If it doesn't fit into the bore, that would be good news, and you might help it a bit with a thorough cleaning. Use a copper cleaning solvent like Barnes CR-10 or Sweets 7.62. Keep cleaning it until there is no blue on a white patch.

I don't think a cast lead bullet would be suitable for moose. You can go up to a 0.312" bullet if you can get someone to hand load them for you.
 
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That's some pretty intense key holing. Your pictures look as though the barrel is heavily fouled. I think I can see the green tinge of oxidizing copper. I have tried to bring a few of these barrels back myself with varying success. Try soaking it in windex overnight, scrub profusely with a stainless bore brush soaked in Kroil. Jag and patch dry. Next next step is up for debate. I used a gel style bore solvent I can't tell you what it is because some got on the label and ate it completely off faster than I could remember the name It was highly toxic. The point being a gel or paste or foaming solvent is gonna be better than good old hoppes 9 it needs to stick in there for the prescribed contact time. And scrub like hell. All this is dependent on how step 1 goes. If no obvious headway is made there it may not be worth saving. In which case re-barrel $250 is conservative for this IMHO but may not be far off. Good chance the smith will have to do some headspace work and these barrels can be a pain to remove. Best of luck we also have a family LE they are great pieces.
 
The bullet definitely don't fit down the muzzle The second gets to the "body" of the actual bullet pass the soft point It stops, I'll the giving it a thorough cleaning before I abandon hope I guess any ammonia based cleaner will do? I'll look for some foam or gel cleaner
 
Petten709 said:
The bullet definitely don't fit down the muzzle The second gets to the "body" of the actual bullet pass the soft point It stops, I'll the giving it a thorough cleaning before I abandon hope I guess any ammonia based cleaner will do? I'll look for some foam or gel cleaner
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The bullet not fitting in the muzzle is a good thing. If you push fairly hard and pull it back out can you see the marks from the rifling? If you paint the bullet with a black marker, it will be easier to see.

As for cleaning I find Barnes CR-10 works well and it has ammonia in it. Sweets 7.62 works well too. I use a nylon brush with white patches wrapped around the brush. You can't use a bronze brush or the ammonia will attack it, and give you a false indication of copper. Janitor's strength ammonia (not ordinary household ammonia) will work too. If you use just ammonia don't let it sit overnight. After you clean with ammonia you should dry patch it, and then put some oil on a patch to prevent corrosion.

Here is a guide to cleaners that work, and some recipes for home made cleaner if you can't find a commercial one.

Gun Cleaning Product Tests
 
Ok - This is mechanical engineering stuff. Years ago, I had a P-14 that keyholed like yours. Bore was reasonably tight like yours, and visual inspection showed lots of rifling but with quite dark and pitted grooves. I scrubbed the bore, got it recrowned, used various bullets, all to no avail. Talked to a former RCEME armourer, and he commented that the bullet will take the path of least resistance down the bore. A pitted bore, with rounded leading edges on the rifling, can prevent the bullet from gripping the rifling and spinning down the barrel. Instead the bullet rides over the lands and skids down the part or all of the barrel.
So - If it doesn't shoot after a good cleaning, the odds may be against you...
 
Depending on the age of your rifle the rifling can be of a type that was designed for heavy blunt .303 bullets. 1898-1900 or so. If I recall it's Lee Metford rifling and a 215 grain bullet over cordite. So quite big and slow, about 1900 or 2000 fps as opposed to your factory rounds which are likely 180 grain and about 2400 feet per second. It could be this.

Or it could be like the others guys said. Probably is. Until the bore is clean nothing matters. Cleaning can shrink a group from two feet down to two inches. So like's been said, get scrubbing! Just remember to not reverse direction on the brush inside the bore. It'll wedge. Don't let anyone tell you your gun is junk either -- it's incomparably better in design and construction than nearly anything under $1000 you can buy new today, and has taken every species of game on every continent. But if the bore's dirty, you can't tell if the barrel is useless or not.
 
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