Polar Bear Cartridge

emerson said:
Question for those who have shot or seen bears shot with them?? Do readily available 12ga slugs have adequate penetration for a breaking shoulders shot on a grizz/polar bear? It's topical for this thread and the very same question is being discussed at work where I am one of a few tasked with this. Was a few seconds from finding out last year and would really like to know from someone else's experience first please. Youtube shows limited penetration, but.....
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I have similar questions on the use of slugs for big bear protection. While I think a 12 ga with a slug or two in conjunction with some buckshot is the ultimate personal protection tool in a "vs a human" instance, a 200 lb soft skinned human is a lot different than 1000 lbs of pissed off hide, hair, muscle, gristle and heavy bone. Remember a bears heartbeat is less than 30 beats per minute. Unless you take their front wheel drive out with a bone breaking single bullet (or all mobility with a neck shot) it can cover 40 yrds in less than 20 seconds and use the rest of the 3 or 4 minutes it takes to bleed to death to really ruin your day. A broadside shot to break both shoulders in a bear charge will never be available to you and a neck shot with a single bullet would take nerves of steel and a good amount of just plain good luck.

My choice to carry in a big bear area would still be the 12 ga. but I would have it stuffed full of plain ol'e #8 bird shot and a pocket full of slugs for round two.

Round one would be to fill his face and EYES with as much discomfort as I can. Self preservation is my first concern and giving Mr Bear a quick death just plain isn't!!!

With his eyes shot out, avoiding what's left of the charge and going to round two with the slugs to dispatch the bear should be a safe enough exercise.

I might be wrong but that's the route I would go with. I just think the mystique of the amount of damage a slug will do to a human won't transfer effectively to a bear in every instance... I just don't think the 3/4 " meplat that a slug will have at 1200 fps will rip & tear enough bone & tissue... and in a self preservation usage, as close to 100 % "effective charge interruption", however that is, as I can get is required.
 
fingers284 said:
I have similar questions on the use of slugs for big bear protection. While I think a 12 ga with a slug or two in conjunction with some buckshot is the ultimate personal protection tool in a "vs a human" instance, a 200 lb soft skinned human is a lot different than 1000 lbs of pissed off hide, hair, muscle, gristle and heavy bone. Remember a bears heartbeat is less than 30 beats per minute. Unless you take their front wheel drive out with a bone breaking single bullet (or all mobility with a neck shot) it can cover 40 yrds in less than 20 seconds and use the rest of the 3 or 4 minutes it takes to bleed to death to really ruin your day. A broadside shot to break both shoulders in a bear charge will never be available to you and a neck shot with a single bullet would take nerves of steel and a good amount of just plain good luck.

My choice to carry in a big bear area would still be the 12 ga. but I would have it stuffed full of plain ol'e #8 bird shot and a pocket full of slugs for round two.

Round one would be to fill his face and EYES with as much discomfort as I can. Self preservation is my first concern and giving Mr Bear a quick death just plain isn't!!!

With his eyes shot out, avoiding what's left of the charge and going to round two with the slugs to dispatch the bear should be a safe enough exercise.

I might be wrong but that's the route I would go with. I just think the mystique of the amount of damage a slug will do to a human won't transfer effectively to a bear in every instance... I just don't think the 3/4 " meplat that a slug will have at 1200 fps will rip & tear enough bone & tissue... and in a self preservation usage, as close to 100 % "effective charge interruption", however that is, as I can get is required.
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I've heard the "birdshot to the face" theory since I was a kid; I didn't think much of it then and I still don't. If the first shot is a slug, and you place it well, you troubles are over . . . if you don't place it well, your troubles may well be over anyway. Load the shotgun with the ammo that is appropriate for the occasion, slugs if you have a clear background, buckshot if you don't, and go to work once your avoidance options have been exhausted. A magazine fed shotgun should be loaded with slugs, with the option of leaving the chamber empty so you can select a shot, or less-lethal cartridge for the first shot. The nerves of steel thing is an acquired taste, but it isn't out of reach by anyone who spends time around these guys. The firearm you carry should provide you with the confidence to think your way out of the problem, but if things go south, your competence with it will get you out of trouble. But competence with a firearm is not a trait we are born with, it must be learned and nurtured. If you don't practice you won't have it, and your chances of survival diminish. Don't shoot early. The closer the target, the easier it is to make a killing shot, despite it's movement, and it will be moving.
 
get her used to recoil then get here something like a 12ga pump(loaded with the best shooting slug don't worry about a rifled barrel and sabots) or a magnum cal rifle a .375 H&H would work and have the stock properly fitted to her poorly fitted stocks are the main reason for recoil sensitivity especially when its too long for a small framed person. remember these are not the black bears we have in Ontario you don't want to screw about
 
A couple of the older fudds at my range recommend the first round birds both thing. When they ask me how I load my camp shotgun I tell them empty chamber hammer down, magazine full of 2.75" Brenneke slugs.
 
thepolinator said:
Hey All,
Not sure if this is the right spot for this, but here goes. I am looking into getting a polar bear suitable caliber. Here is the catch its for my recoil sensitive wife. The back story: my wife is a geologist working for Geological Survey of Canada, she will likely be doing field work across the Arctic in the next couple of years. While she will likely have an armed guide, she may also require a rifle for bear defense. So my question is what should I be looking at for a recoil sensitive woman that would be able to stop a Polar bear. Magnum calibers are definitely not an option. The only thing that came to mind for me was a 12ga shooting sabots with a recoil reducing stock. What are your thoughts on this one? Do you think a 20 ga would have enough knock down power to be suitable? What about a .303 Br or 7.62x39 (I know this is a crappy caliber, but the lack of recoil is great for her?
Thanks,
Paul
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Sporter .303 or a Jungle Carbine .303 with 180gr Winchester SP. This will stop a Polar bear. For what it is worth my cousin shot a polar bear in his backyard (St. Anthony area) that was stalking his wife at the clothesline with a 30-06 some 15 years ago. 1 shot and it dropped right there.
 
Chuckbuster said:
To add a little expertise...Prince Justin carried a bolt action 30-06 while travelling in the Arctic with students. And he made sure that we were all aware of his bona fides on the gun file, because, you know, that established that he is one of us and understands us...insert sarcasm and puking smiley here...

However, on a more serious note, I have known a few people over the years who have conducted Arctic field work, and they all carried shotguns with slugs. Currently an MNR bio friend does the same when working in Hudson/James Bay.
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That was in Greenland, Canadians don't need guns. I've wondered about that quote of his and teaching with a rifle over his shoulder, his is involved with Students on Ice (along with Peter Mansbridge) and the only mention of him I found was onboard ship inspirational speeches, shipboard singing, and jumping overboard the ship to swim. Personally I am skeptical of him teaching field classes as he doesn't strike me as an expert on Vikings, or biology, or anything else for that matter.
 
They only way I would even consider anything other than a solid slug, is in very dense bush/close cover. I would substitute a single round of 0000 or 000 copper plated and buffered magnum buckshot, for the first round discharged, at hopefully a little bit more than claw-tooth range. In more open terrain, this would be removed and immediately replaced with the best slug I could afford, followed by a full magazine of the exact same slugs.

Edit: I guess my post would rarely apply to any polar bear situation.
 
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I've used 12g slugs on bear, standard Federal off the shelf stuff, and they are highly mediocre. Death with good placement occurs within 10-30 seconds, that's a very long time and the bears can go a long ways in that time. I'm talking black bear, step up to real bears and almost useless for stopping power. Federal deep penetrator or Brennekes would be the way to go, then you have a decent weapon, but still not a rifle.
 
thepolinator said:
While she will likely have an armed guide, she may also require a rifle for bear defense.
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Paul,

I wouldn't worry too much about arming your wife. All work that goes on in the arctic these days involves Inuit from local communities. One of the jobs they do is wildlife monitor. They will have the 12 ga or the .303. They will be watching the horizon at all times. They will shoot the bear, if they have to. If your wife shoots the bear, she may have to pay an incredibly large fine and will end up making no money all summer.

GSC is too smart and safety conscious to put your wife out in the middle of nowhere with no defence. Also, there will most often be a helicopter close enough that it can come scoop her up before the bear gets close.
 
redbeard870 said:
Also, there will most often be a helicopter close enough that it can come scoop her up before the bear gets close.
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If the weather permits.

NEVER assume in the arctic that your aircraft will be able to arrive when you really need it. Have a backup plan in case it is clagged in or the machine is down for mechanical reasons.
 
geologist said:
If the weather permits.

NEVER assume in the arctic that your aircraft will be able to arrive when you really need it. Have a backup plan in case it is clagged in or the machine is down for mechanical reasons.
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Absolutely! Most of the geos I've worked with have to bring all their survival gear with them every day, unless they are within easy walking distance of camp of course!
 
fingers284 said:
you could be right...but then you could be wrong as well, but its her shiit in a sling not yours...
she has two strikes against her right off the bat, #1 she is a woman and women menstruate, #2 she has an issue that may impede her ability to act appropriately. strike #2 makes #3 only a heartbeat from reality.
I realize a bear attack is as likely as a lightning strike but with strike #1 she is carrying a lightning rod that will attract a bolt from quite a distance away, making strikes #2 & 3 a distinct possibility.
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X3 on the likliehood of an enounter in much of the Arctic. Skied all over the Queen Maude Gulf south of Cam Bay, investigating icebergs, used to carry a shotgun but after a while stopped due to wieght. Never worried aobut bears there, saw lots of wolf but no polar bear. Out by Tuk and barren lands NE lots this year and nary a bear to be seen. Monitor will probably have a rifle, so back up with a shotgun, like many have said. Sounds like a great job.
 
Power Pill said:
id go with a 22lr :redface:
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;)

Exactly!

Why lug this?

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When all you need is this.

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