Poll: Detachable vs. Internal Box Mag

[Boomer]

On a dangerous / larger game type rifle, a blind mag is my prefference.

I prefer a hinged floorplate on serious rifles, and consider a blind magazine a mistake. The following is from Ross Seyfied -

"There is a horrid rifle disease about called the blind magazine. If you get a jam with a blind magazine there is no quick or graceful way to cure it. Essentially the only hope is to fish out your pocket knife and begin to pry and fiddle. A fellow with a conventional trap door floorplate only has to pop open the door and drop the cartridges and jam o the forest floor and load again. Yes there are those who do not believe the blind magazine can bite, and there is a cure for those. Just take his rifle and shove an empty shell down into the magazine and watch him bubble."

Then he gives it to the DBM lovers -

"Another common disease is the detachable box magazine. These are pieces that can pop out and be lost, while most prevent loading the rifle conventionally from the top. It is extremely important to be able to push a round or rounds quickly into the rifle while keeping your eyes on the game. Most detachable boxes make this impossible. for my money, detachable "clips" belong on pistols."

Now I grew up shooting Lee Enfield, and I would of taken umbridge to the statements concerning the DBM's - that is until I went hunting with a Remington 788 - and lost the magazine on several occasions - and was unable to load it from the top. So the Lee Enfield aside - DBM's are probably a mistake.

 

[tiriaq]

A detachable magazine that can only be loaded out of the rifle can be a handicap. Better have another loaded one handy because reloading in the field can be slow and awkward. The 788s are a case in point because not only must they be loaded out of the rifle, their capacity is very limited. Many military style rifles with detachable magazines have the best of both worlds - they can be loaded through the action, or by changing magazines, as desired. In cold weather, much can be said in favour of Lee Enfields - if you need more than 10 rounds to do your business, something is wrong.
For precision rifle use on a range, I don't know if there is need for any type of magazine.

 

[Glock4ever]

Ross Seyfied, if all his opinions are like that then it is probably better that I have never heard of him. That quote really doesn't make any sense - he is saying that DBM are no good because you can't load it without taking your eyes off the game but I don't think there is anybody out there who can load a rifle (DBM, Blind, or Floorplate) w/o taking their eyes off their prey. Unless you happen to walk around with a pile of loose ammunition in your hands, which I doubt, you are going to have to tear your eyes away from your sights to grab your ammo first. Besides most repeaters carry around 3-4 shots - if you don't hit with the first 3-4 shots what makes you think you are going to hit it with the next 3-4? As for DBMs being another thing to lose, well I guess you better not allow the bolt to come off or the sling either because you might lose those too. I always store my bolt seperately from my rifle but somehow I always manage to put the bolt into my rifle before going hunt... just my opinion.

 

[savagefan]

Ditto, besides I can top load my old box mag Savage 116 or just toss one in and close the bolt no problem. If you shoot within your own capabilities and those of your rig one shot will do it. This is not the hunting forum so I guess many of the pro-con arguments are not really applicable here.

 

[Slavex]

I can also single load my Sako TRG22 through the extraction port with zero feed problems, just toss the round in, and away you go. For things like sniper matches, where rapid fire is occasionally needed, or weird ass body positions, single feeding is not a good idea and is difficult to do without your partner doing it for you. Hence the reason I like detach box mags (10 rounders of course).

 

[Boomer]

Ross Seyfied, if all his opinions are like that then it is probably better that I have never heard of him. That quote really doesn't make any sense - he is saying that DBM are no good because you can't load it without taking your eyes off the game but I don't think there is anybody out there who can load a rifle (DBM, Blind, or Floorplate) w/o taking their eyes off their prey. Unless you happen to walk around with a pile of loose ammunition in your hands, which I doubt, you are going to have to tear your eyes away from your sights to grab your ammo first. Besides most repeaters carry around 3-4 shots - if you don't hit with the first 3-4 shots what makes you think you are going to hit it with the next 3-4? As for DBMs being another thing to lose, well I guess you better not allow the bolt to come off or the sling either because you might lose those too. I always store my bolt seperately from my rifle but somehow I always manage to put the bolt into my rifle before going hunt... just my opinion.

The idea is that you can add rounds to a bolt gun prior to the follow up. Under such circumstances, you are holding the rifle in your weak hand - eyes on the game so you know where it has fallen, or disappeared, or in the direction which it continues to run, while you add rounds to the magazine. With your strong hand, you retrieve cartridges from a butt cuff, cartridge slide, or from your pocket while not loosing track of the game. It is not difficult with practice, and reduces the likely hood that you might loose the animal. Being able to keep your eyes on target rather than on your rifle while reloading is a fairly basic element of rifle management.

 

[Levi Garrett]

If it feeds , thats what counts

 

[Glock4ever]

Boomer if you are saying that dismounting your rifle from your shoulder and loading your rifle through top port is easier then dropping a mag out and loading through the bottom you are kidding yourself. You can easily do the same thing with a DBM, probably even more easily or quickly than with a top loader, as you only have to make the motion once with a DBM as opposed to 3-4 times with a hinged floorplate and a mag requires less manual dexterity then a round to load in. Personally I don't really care which system ppl use but I really dislike it when ppl come up with bogus arguments to "slag" another system. I have hinged floorplates, blind mags, and DBMs and they all work fine. The only reason I prefer DBMs is because I can carry my ammo in my pocket and not worry about the rounds clinking around plus it is quicker to unload a DBM then either a hinged or blind mag. A big plus if you drive a lot while hunting... just my humble opinion.

 

[cycbb486]

The drawback

with a detachable mag (clip) is it can get misplaced or lost. The clip for my Sako TRG is close to 150.00 for a piece of plastic I have often thought of tying a string to it so that if it ever fell out. I have a hard time thinking of buying a second clip for it.

 

[Splatter]

I liked the 788 mags. They offered a central feed position, so that the tips don't get banged-up coming from the left or right. And they certainly didn't interfere with single loading.
The drawback was limited capacity.

 

[Gun5tuff]

with a detachable mag (clip) is it can get misplaced or lost. The clip for my Sako TRG is close to 150.00 for a piece of plastic I have often thought of tying a string to it so that if it ever fell out. I have a hard time thinking of buying a second clip for it.

It seems to me that if a detachable magazine detaches on its own it either wasn't locked in properly by its owner or a gunsmith needs to fix a loose mechanism. As an aside, a hunting pal of mine has his magazine attached to his floorplate. He likes this feature. I also remember when he was a lad his Momma tied his mittens on a string passed through his jacket while others just learned to safekeep their equipment.

Peter

 

[Gatehouse]

Boomer if you are saying that dismounting your rifle from your shoulder and loading your rifle through top port is easier then dropping a mag out and loading through the bottom you are kidding yourself. You can easily do the same thing with a DBM, probably even more easily or quickly than with a top loader, as you only have to make the motion once with a DBM as opposed to 3-4 times with a hinged floorplate and a mag requires less manual dexterity then a round to load in. Personally I don't really care which system ppl use but I really dislike it when ppl come up with bogus arguments to "slag" another system. I have hinged floorplates, blind mags, and DBMs and they all work fine. The only reason I prefer DBMs is because I can carry my ammo in my pocket and not worry about the rounds clinking around plus it is quicker to unload a DBM then either a hinged or blind mag. A big plus if you drive a lot while hunting... just my humble opinion.

It's not just the one feature of the hinged floorplate s detach- it's a combination.

If you read Boomers post above, where he quotes Seyfried (was a Ph in Africa, World champion practical pistol shooter back in the day, hunted much of the world, shot man many differnet guns, columnist for Rifle/Handloader?guns & Ammo etc) You will see that he mentions jams as well as topping up.

Now, I knwo your rifle never jams and neither does mine, but things abve been known to get unglued when there is a big furry and scratchy animal that you have to follow up on...

If you get a jam with a hinged floorplate, you open it up and dump the contents, reload and go. Blind mags dont offer this oportunity, nor do detach mags. When somehting sticks, often the magazine won't come out either- with part of the cartridge or case suck beneatht he flanges of the mag and pat int he chamber or in the reciever etc.

Hinged floorplates can pop open anf detach mags can drop out. Both are due to improper tuning or improper installation.

Hinged has the advantage of- Clears jam faster, top up magazine from the top without removing eyes from game, simple system with nothing to lose, drop or get damaged.

Those that prefer detach or blind mags are not gogint o get any argument form me about what they should be using it's a personal choice, but I sure knwo I won't use them for hunting, especialy when hunting dangerous game liek grizzly bears, or semi dangerous game (liek black bears and even moose)

 

[Splatter]

If you get a jam with a hinged floorplate, you open it up and dump the contents, reload and go. Blind mags dont offer this oportunity, nor do detach mags. When somehting sticks, often the magazine won't come out either- with part of the cartridge or case suck beneatht he flanges of the mag and pat int he chamber or in the reciever etc.

While the only centerfire boltguns I've owned were the 788 and a couple SMLEs, I do have a fair bit of experience with semiautos with detachable mags, which was all the DND issued to me, so I opine that if one trips the mag release, puts a good grip on the mag and reefs, one can exert plenty of force to unstick anything that is stuck.

I will certainly concede that there is generally nothing to misplace with the hinged floorplate.

 

[Gatehouse]

While the only centerfire boltguns I've owned were the 788 and a couple SMLEs, I do have a fair bit of experience with semiautos with detachable mags, which was all the DND issued to me, so I opine that if one trips the mag release, puts a good grip on the mag and reefs, one can exert plenty of force to unstick anything that is stuck.

I will certainly concede that there is generally nothing to misplace with the hinged floorplate.

The difference beig that many sportig rifles don't have much surfce area to put a good grip on the magazine, unlike military rifls that have a fair bit sticking down.

 

[Splatter]

The difference beig that many sportig rifles don't have much surfce area to put a good grip on the magazine, unlike military rifls that have a fair bit sticking down.

Ah, that point I concede as well. Flush fitting mags don't work like that.

 

[Glock4ever]

I don't buy that argument Gate, you may be correct with the blind magazine but with a DBM you can simply open the action drop the defective mag and place a new one in which is even faster then a hinged floorplate (assuming you have more then one magazine). If you are saying there is a jam in the receiver that has nothing to do with the magazine at all (i.e. defective extractor) then you would be SOL with any style of magazine. As for topping up a mag, with a DBM you can load a round into the pipe and then drop the mag and load another into the mag - you can't do that with a hinged floorplate. Like I said earlier it doesn't matter to me what style a guy uses but I personally think the argument that hinged floorplates are superior are bunk. As for dangerous game, plenty of hunters have killed dangerous animals with just a single shot musket or falling blocks so I am inclined to believe that any repeater will suffice.

 

[Gatehouse]

I don't buy that argument Gate, you may be correct with the blind magazine but with a DBM you can simply open the action drop the defective mag and place a new one in which is even faster then a hinged floorplate (assuming you have more then one magazine).

What I am saying is that there may come a time when your magazine gets hung up with a cartridge or case part way out of the magazine. With a hinged floorplate you can open it, relase any pressure on it, and pluck it out. With a magazine it *may* be jammed in there under pressure, making extraction of the magazine difficult.

If you are saying there is a jam in the receiver that has nothing to do with the magazine at all (i.e. defective extractor) then you would be SOL with any style of magazine.

Defectivr extractor is defective...no arguments there.

As for topping up a mag, with a DBM you can load a round into the pipe and then drop the mag and load another into the mag - you can't do that with a hinged floorplate.

I'm not sure how that pertains to what I was discussing- which was topping up a magazine while keeping an eye on the game etc, But- You can load one in the chamber and have a full magazine with a hinged floorplate. You just load the magazine, drop another shell on top and press down as you close the bolt. Easier and faster than charging a magazine, inserting the mag, working action removing magazine and refilling and reinserting.

Like I said earlier it doesn't matter to me what style a guy uses but I personally think the argument that hinged floorplates are superior are bunk.

Doesn't bother me what anyone else uses, as I said before. I far prefer a hinged floorplate and others that spend more time in vehicles may prefer a detach or whatever- Everyone has a reason for preferring what they prefer. The reasons I like a hinged floorplate may not be applicable to others, and clearly the reason some like DM's is not applicable to me.

As for superior- Hinged floorplates are superior in some situations, DM's in others...Depends what you like.

As for dangerous game, plenty of hunters have killed dangerous animals with just a single shot musket or falling blocks so I am inclined to believe that any repeater will suffice.

As long as it goes bang at the appropriate times, I think that you are probably correct for the most part. Not every repeater does, though...

 

[Boomer]

Good posts Gate!

Consider sporting rifles chambered for the cartridges which we associate with the hunting of dangerous game. The makers of repeating rifles never make these rifles with any magazine other than the hinged floorplate. The reason is because when things must work every time, the hinged floorplate is the most dependable magazine yet developed for a bolt action repeating rifle.

 

[Glock4ever]

OK, one more rd on this one.

1.) If you have a jam with a DBM that somehow forces the mag not to drop out (I have never seen one on a boltgun but hey it could happen) just open the bolt and push through the top - not a biggie there.

2.) No Contest

3.) OK, I assume you are saying that after you have fired and you are observing your prey that you are topping up two rds (to replace what you fired, right?) so you would:

a. open action (extracting rd)
b. push 1 rd into magazine
c. place 2 rd on top to get extra rd on top
d. close action while applying pressure.

With DBM:

a. cycle action open and close (new rd into chamber)
b. take out partially empty mag or empty mag
c. load fresh mag

Just as quick no? Unless you are going to stipulate that I am only allowed to have 1 magazine with my DBM rifle...

 

[Gatehouse]

Well, I am just playing along here, but sure, i guess I can play more.

1.) If you have a jam with a DBM that somehow forces the mag not to drop out (I have never seen one on a boltgun but hey it could happen) just open the bolt and push through the top - not a biggie there.

I've actually seen it happen on 2 rifles- one was a SMLE IIRC. Can't remmebr the other Myabe a older Tikka? But both were at the range, and the shooters came over to me to ask for assistance clearing thier rifles. IIRC, the shooters had a problem with double feeding, resulting in a jam, which took a bit of time to fix.

3.) OK, I assume you are saying that after you have fired and you are observing your prey that you are topping up two rds (to replace what you fired, right?) so you would:

a. open action (extracting rd)
b. push 1 rd into magazine
c. place 2 rd on top to get extra rd on top
d. close action while applying pressure.

I guess it depends on the person, and what you are used to. If I was to top up a magazine, I would:

Open action and extract one cartirdge, replacing it in the top of the magazine

Grab a cartridge off my belt, press it down, and close the bolt.

With DBM:

a. cycle action open and close (new rd into chamber)
b. take out partially empty mag or empty mag
c. load fresh mag

With this I see removing the old mag, put it in your pocket

Withdraw new mag form pocket, Insert.

I'm not sure if one woudl be faster than the other, I know I don't like to fumble putting a magazine back in my pocket.

One other point, which probably isn't relevant most of the time, but since we are playing the game, I will point out

If you drop your magazine at some time in the reloading process, or if something happens that causes you to have to run or move during the process- You have a single shot rifle. Even if I was unable to top up my magazine with a cartridge, I'd still have a repeater with one in the chamber and at least one in the magazine.

But liek I have said before- Everyone should use what they prefer.