Possible CZ 858 reclassification?

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5440fight said:
I like cats. Apparently, cats like me. As long as I keep breathing, they probably won't eat me.

http://3.bp.########.com/_gfXupHOEhH0/S2R5EoJiQZI/AAAAAAAAONM/GjlY9AbnTbM/s640/cute-cat.jpg

With that, I have brought something real and meaningfull to this thread.

Wolverine: I hope you get your product soon, how rude, and counter-productive.
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great_gifs_with_cats_18.gif
 
tactical870 said:
Yes, but considering this rather depressing thread you would have made many of us feel a bit better. :p
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True, but I'm a 7(from the right angle), and she's 9.5, and I didn't come with a fat wallet or anything. I've already rattled the natural order of things, and I see no reason to offend my dream girl.

This thread isn't depressing yet. So the RCMP are making it difficult to buy and sell guns in Canada... shocker! When an official statement comes down the pipe, I'll get fired up. Until then, this is just "They are banning the CZ858" version 8.115. Search for it, see how many hits you get. It doesn't shock me that the RCMP is attempting to rock the boat, they've had the CZ858/vz58, ar-15, mini-14, sks, brs-99, skorpion, XCR, ACR, Kriss Vector, he11, all semi-auto's in their sights from day one. Until someone in Ottawa reigns them in, I see no end in sight, just re-interpretations of existing law, until they run out of options. One of these days, to qoute Strangeday, "it's going to be biblical", but I may not be around to see it.

Until then, I have a type97nsr on order, my brother has a M37 on the way, and I intend to make all the purchases I can, right up to that thin line between me being a tax paying citizen, and me being an outlaw.

Cheer up guys, life is good!
 
gaff said:
but they still do what there RCMP handlers tell them. there president came directly from the RCMP,
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No they don't. RCMP has no connection at all with Customs. Canada Customs falls under the control of the Canada Revenue Agency. RCMP is under Public Safety. One does not have authority over the other and cannot give orders to the other. Besides there is no indication that anyone ordered anything. Indeed, we don't know what the holdup is with those shipments. All we know is that there is indeed no attempt to reclassify the CZ/VZ family of firearms.
 
Mantis said:
No they don't. RCMP has no connection at all with Customs. Canada Customs falls under the control of the Canada Revenue Agency. RCMP is under Public Safety. One does not have authority over the other and cannot give orders to the other. Besides there is no indication that anyone ordered anything. Indeed, we don't know what the holdup is with those shipments. All we know is that there is indeed no attempt to reclassify the CZ/VZ family of firearms.
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Canada customs does not exist any more, not for over ten years. It became CBSA, amalgamating Immigration CFIA and Customs into one organization. Both RCMP and CBSA are under Public Safety Canada. http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/abt/wwa/index-eng.aspx

If CBSA is holding these shipments it would be at the request of RCMP awaiting determination, and shipments would not be released until any import restrictions or concerns were dealt with. Having worked along side CBSA I can tell you that commercial shipments are not seized unless the goods are prohibited in nature or were not declared, or declared properly. They can be held but generally the importer can export the goods when declared once an examination was done if CBSA required one. I can also say there is no way CBSA warehouse charges would amount to $100,000.00 since the beginning of the year. As I recall storage after 5 free days was $10.00 per day for a shipment. Call any border office and they will tell you what their storage fee's are.
 
Unfortunately a lot of people are passing well intentioned opinions on this thread that are not correct for this case.

I need to step in here and clarify one point but do not want to get drawn into a long debate as the problem is a lot more complicated than it may appear. The storage fees of $100,000.00 plus were paid to Lufthansa. Commercial shipments normally get two to three days (approx depends on the company) free storage and then fees are charged based on a cubic foot per day basis. CBSA are never involved in charging storage fees on our commercial shipments. Storage fees are collected before release of the goods! Like I said this is not a simple issue.

One day, I will, if at all possible, disclose “the rest of the story!”
 
Mr Wolverine said:
Unfortunately a lot of people are passing well intentioned opinions on this thread that are not correct for this case.

I need to step in here and clarify one point but do not want to get drawn into a long debate as the problem is a lot more complicated than it may appear. The storage fees of $100,000.00 plus were paid to Lufthansa. Commercial shipments normally get two to three days (approx depends on the company) free storage and then fees are charged based on a cubic foot per day basis. CBSA are never involved in charging storage fees on our commercial shipments. Storage fees are collected before release of the goods! Like I said this is not a simple issue.

One day, I will, if at all possible, disclose “the rest of the story!”
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Thanks for clarifying, John, but either way - you're business is out of pocket $100,000 to bring in a specific product.

Regardless of who it's paid out to, that's a cost you're going to have to recuperate somehow. Personally, if it's not profitable to you to bring in these rifles, I can't imagine how or why you or any other dealer would want to try to bring them in again.

I own a few (non-gun related) small businesses and I understand very well how cost and price work.

I know if you want to stay in business AND put food on the table you HAVE to pass on those costs to consumers of your product.

I also believe you imported this firearms in good faith that you were in complete compliance with the myriad of laws and regulations to ensure you were doing so in a lawful fashion, but at the last minute "the law" decided you weren't - and it appears to be through no fault or intention of your own.

That being the case, your business is now forced to absorb a cost you will by necessity HAVE to pass on to your customers.

From what I see, the RCMP in 2005 classified the 858's as Non-res or restricted. Wolverine has been importing these since then, and thousands to tens of thousands of these are in the hands of Canadian gun owners who similarly procured them in good faith. 8 years later, the RCMP make a reversal and seize a shipment of hundreds to thousands of the same rifles, raising the specter that SOMETHING has changed.

Could the rifles have differed from the previous shipments? Maybe - that part is not clear. Maybe that triggered the whole ordeal, and if so, maybe this whole discussion is moot.

That screenshot of what appears to be the FRT with the 858 2/4 V/P models classified as Full Auto is quite disturbing though. If it is legitimate, it implies the RCMP have found a solution to a problem they created and a lot of people will be paying the price for it.

Personally, knowing how the RCMP, Customs, and the Federal government meddle in the industry like a racketeering syndicate, I don't think I'd ever want to run a firearm related business - stories like yours only reaffirm that. I don't mean that to dissuade or disrespect you or your business. I say that to try understand and empathize with how hard of a situation you must be in.
 
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CBSA and RCMP cooperates and works closely with each other on firearm issues. I knew it because I had experience with them. They even exchange personal info.
 
harbl_the_cat said:
From what I see, the RCMP in 2005 classified the 858's as Non-res or restricted. Wolverine has been importing these since then, and thousands to tens of thousands of these are in the hands of Canadian gun owners who similarly procured them in good faith. 8 years later, the RCMP make a reversal and seize a shipment of hundreds to thousands of the same rifles, raising the specter that SOMETHING has changed.

Could the rifles have differed from the previous shipments? Maybe - that part is not clear. Maybe that triggered the whole ordeal, and if so, maybe this whole discussion is moot.

That screenshot of what appears to be the FRT with the 858 2/4 V/P models classified as Full Auto is quite disturbing though. If it is legitimate, it implies the RCMP have found a solution to a problem they created and a lot of people will be paying the price for it.
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The RCMP has not "seized" anything. The shipment is held up at customs. The RCMP is not involved. Further, the RCMP has clearly stated that there is no review of the CZ-858 taking place. That supposed screen shot is obviously someone trying to create fear-mongering for whatever purpose because it does not mesh with the reality of the situation.
 
Mantis said:
The RCMP has not "seized" anything. The shipment is held up at customs. The RCMP is not involved. Further, the RCMP has clearly stated that there is no review of the CZ-858 taking place. That supposed screen shot is obviously someone trying to create fear-mongering for whatever purpose because it does not mesh with the reality of the situation.
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Agreed, the sky is NOT falling....Deep breath people.....Not that things are not good for Wolverine though...I feel for them and their storage fees.
 
harbl_the_cat said:
From what I see, the RCMP in 2005 classified the 858's as Non-res or restricted. Wolverine has been importing these since then, and thousands to tens of thousands of these are in the hands of Canadian gun owners who similarly procured them in good faith. 8 years later, the RCMP make a reversal and seize a shipment of hundreds to thousands of the same rifles, raising the specter that SOMETHING has changed.

Could the rifles have differed from the previous shipments? Maybe - that part is not clear. Maybe that triggered the whole ordeal, and if so, maybe this whole discussion is moot.

That screenshot of what appears to be the FRT with the 858 2/4 V/P models classified as Full Auto is quite disturbing though. If it is legitimate, it implies the RCMP have found a solution to a problem they created and a lot of people will be paying the price for it.
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Why do people still keep saying that the CZ858 is in danger of reclassification? Didn't Faith Goldy already confirm that the RCMP is not currently reviewing the CZ858 for reclassification? Is there new news that says otherwise? I don't understand why we keep revisiting this issue?
 
Mantis said:
No they don't. RCMP has no connection at all with Customs. Canada Customs falls under the control of the Canada Revenue Agency. RCMP is under Public Safety. One does not have authority over the other and cannot give orders to the other. Besides there is no indication that anyone ordered anything. Indeed, we don't know what the holdup is with those shipments. All we know is that there is indeed no attempt to reclassify the CZ/VZ family of firearms.
Canadian Border Services Agency has nothing to do with Revenue Canada http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/pr-bio-eng.html
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