Possible T81 New Issue

I agree with your general premise concerning pre-sales, but disagree that the fix is as simple as you suggest. All it takes is a handful of impatient customers with deep pockets to commit to a pre-sale to lock in the asking price every single time. Getting Canadian gunnies to agree on anything is next to impossible, let alone a strategy for wrestling the control of pre-sales away from the vendors.... Sad, but true.
 
Bartok5 said:
I agree with your general premise concerning pre-sales, but disagree that the fix is as simple as you suggest. All it takes is a handful of impatient customers with deep pockets to commit to a pre-sale to lock in the asking price every single time. Getting Canadian gunnies to agree on anything is next to impossible, let alone a strategy for wrestling the control of pre-sales away from the vendors.... Sad, but true.
Click to expand...

I agree completely and that's why we will always get bent over the barrel and raided from behind without lube. It's because of this we will also never hear the end of the whining about rifle X not living up to expectations, not being "worth" what they cost, and also why the pre-orders for new rifles will only become more the norm rather than a new product showing up at a retailer for us to fondle prior to purchase which would allow us to make an informed decision on it's worth before shelling out the cash. We are our own worst enemies, unfortunately most people try to blame the importer or the retailer rather than blaming themselves when they are let down after their pre-sale rifle arrives in the mail.

The only time a pre-order makes sense to me is if a reputable manufacturer does a limited run on a rare and/or very desirable rifle, in that case you know exactly what quality to expect and you know exactly the specs of the rifle you're ordering. You only need to decide if you can afford to buy what you desire.
 
cr5 said:
Oh, you better not look to see how much those sell for in the US before buying one here or you'll have a sh!tfit seeing how much we're getting arse-raped here to have a DMR safety and an extra inch and a half of barrel.
Looks like a good rifle but the CEO of the company is a douchbag and the price is too high (in my opinion) for a rifle like that. People whine that TI probably only paid $200 per unit and sells them for $1000, I would bet M+M only has $500 into each rifle before adding the F Canadians tax and the import costs.



I can argue none of this, my only comment is to add to it.
Have none of you ever bought a Norinco or Poly rifle before? What the hell were you expecting? Anyone with any sense does not buy a rifle made in China and expect it to be flawless or even high quality. These are cheap, reliable bullet hoses and a slightly "bent" receiver will not change that. These are probably the exact same quality as the ones issued to PLA soldiers but they just took them into battle rather than trying to find fault with them. I'm glad TI has a restocking fee because from the pics I've seen most of the rifles people are nit-picking and sending back with tears rolling down their butt-hurt cheeks are perfectly functional and are only flawed if you expect them to rival North American made rifles.

Will these rise in "value" or "cost"? I doubt that very much, these are collector nothing and I predict they will settle in at around $700 on the EE or if another batch is imported. They COST $1000 because of all the guys who jumped on the pre-order early, just like every other rifle out there like the 102, the M10x, APC, etc, if you jump on and just throw your money at the first price they give out you will pay top dollar. If you guys had shown interest but said the price was too high they would have tried again with a lower price. This can be repeated until the importer reaches a price they feel no longer covers their margin and it is no longer worth their time or effort. Have none of you ever negotiated a price before?

Why do you think the Pre-Order has become so popular the last couple years? Because it's a great way for a retailer/importer to get maximum profits, they don't do it for us, it's all about making the most money possible. If you think the pre-order financed the buy you don't know shat, they can always take out a loan to finance it, that's what banks do for businesses who need money to make money.

Being mad at TI for charging $1000 for these is just stupid, no one forced you to buy one, you all volunteered to pay $1000 for a rifle made in China from a company we've all seen products from. Every Norc 1911 I've owned has needed a file to smooth out the sharp edges and every M305/M14 I've owned has needed a little fitting to get things lined up correctly. Why would anyone expect anything different with the Type-81?
Guys seem to think $1000 is a lot of money for a semi auto, well wake up people, look around. What else can you buy for $1000? A T-97, or a Kel-Tec, and everyone complains about those.

Put away your lasers and micrometers and just go shoot your rifle, they're very smooth shooting and are a lot of fun. Sitting around crying that it's not perfect is just silly, these are a splitting axe not a scalpel, treat them as such and you'll be much happier.



LMFAO! I would bet that buying an NEA/BCL would give you even less chance of getting a perfect rifle than buying Norinco/Poly, the only difference is that NEA/BCL has a warranty.
Click to expand...

After attempting to briefly skim your replies and losing interest because of the enormous size. I realized your a expert on everything. So good for you.

Still waiting for my 81 and won't give a yay or nay until they show up.
 
I think the pre sale marketing approach is the worst thing possible for the consumer. It's one thing if you are "ordering" a known product thats been on the market for a while and has a proven track record. Pre sale for a brand new product is ludicrous. Here's a thought. Certain marketing practices are not allowed by CGN admin such as auctions. Wonder what would happen if they banned this whole pre sale fiasco. ?? How about advertising items for sale when they are available for sale ? You can still hype the crap out of it. We would will still buy it. No one loses.
 
I think I can safely say I am done with pre-orders and for that matter group buys.

There may be some unicorn pre-order I would do but it would be an exception.
 
Gatehouse said:
I don't know what some of you non T81 owners are getting so worked up about.

I wanted an AK47 looking Chi-Com Bullet hose, and that's what I got. In that regard, it's top notch.

Everyone knew (or should have known) that the price tag of $1000 is just what it cost us. The price tag has zero bearing on the quality of the rifle.
Click to expand...

If the rifles are bent and non functional how are they a "bullet hose"? If you were after an AK looking reliable rifle then the 858 is the answer.

Bartok5 said:
I'm sorry to say that Mustang Frank and Kidd X have nailed it. They may be lacking in tact, but they are not wrong concerning the disappointing quality and low future resale value of the T81s. Quite frankly, I wouldn't pay more than $400 for a straight one, and that is only if I were interested in acquiring one, which I am definitely not. Although I collect modern, Post-WW2 military-style firearms, I have zero interest in the T81. They are nothing more than an odd and unfortunate footnote in military firearms history, used by a virtual "who's who" of destitute 3rd-World militaries. Then there is the famous Norinco-plinko "quality" to consider, with custom, dremel-fitted critical components, razor-sharp edges, softwood furniture, rust-prone salt bluing, etc, etc. No thank-you. There is nothing even remotely "collector grade" about these firearms and those who think there is are sadly delusional.
Click to expand...
SPOT ON!!

Gatehouse said:
"Collector grade???"

When was "Collector Grade" advertised???

They are AK47 look alike fun guns.

A few guys are bringing out lasers and having a panic. The lasers and the panic are only important if you are prone to panic and you don't understand what you were buying. I'm sure a small few are truly defective, but the bent gun freak out is likely unwarranted .

The T81 are what they are! Go blast away and have fun! If you wanted a sub MOA rifle, you made the wrong choice :)
Click to expand...

Colletor grade was never advertised. There was mention by other members that the non bent functional guns would become collectible which is an absolute joke. Regardless of price a bent receiver(poorly welded trunion to be accurate) is not acceptable. It's not safe and it is not how the rifle was designed(we hope).

The Kurgan said:
This is the first time I read a thread concerning T81's... as I had zero interest in them and I know hype when I see it. This reinforces that sentiment. Quite happy with my all-matching Russian SKS workhorses that deliver similar accuracy in a far more reliable and rugged platform.
Click to expand...

And about $800 more in your pocket as well!!

cr5 said:
Oh, you better not look to see how much those sell for in the US before buying one here or you'll have a sh!tfit seeing how much we're getting arse-raped here to have a DMR safety and an extra inch and a half of barrel.
Looks like a good rifle but the CEO of the company is a douchbag and the price is too high (in my opinion) for a rifle like that. People whine that TI probably only paid $200 per unit and sells them for $1000, I would bet M+M only has $500 into each rifle before adding the F Canadians tax and the import costs.



I can argue none of this, my only comment is to add to it.
Have none of you ever bought a Norinco or Poly rifle before? What the hell were you expecting? Anyone with any sense does not buy a rifle made in China and expect it to be flawless or even high quality. These are cheap, reliable bullet hoses and a slightly "bent" receiver will not change that. These are probably the exact same quality as the ones issued to PLA soldiers but they just took them into battle rather than trying to find fault with them. I'm glad TI has a restocking fee because from the pics I've seen most of the rifles people are nit-picking and sending back with tears rolling down their butt-hurt cheeks are perfectly functional and are only flawed if you expect them to rival North American made rifles.
No, I've never bought a garbage piece of anything sold by Norinco. They are far from reliable and the PLA soldiers don't exactly have a lot of choice in what rifle they get nor a lot of other aspects of life.


Will these rise in "value" or "cost"? I doubt that very much, these are collector nothing and I predict they will settle in at around $700 on the EE or if another batch is imported. They COST $1000 because of all the guys who jumped on the pre-order early, just like every other rifle out there like the 102, the M10x, APC, etc, if you jump on and just throw your money at the first price they give out you will pay top dollar. If you guys had shown interest but said the price was too high they would have tried again with a lower price. This can be repeated until the importer reaches a price they feel no longer covers their margin and it is no longer worth their time or effort. Have none of you ever negotiated a price before?
Right! Premature excitement inflated the price.


Why do you think the Pre-Order has become so popular the last couple years? Because it's a great way for a retailer/importer to get maximum profits, they don't do it for us, it's all about making the most money possible. If you think the pre-order financed the buy you don't know shat, they can always take out a loan to finance it, that's what banks do for businesses who need money to make money.
It is a business after all, and profit is what drives the decisions.

Being mad at TI for charging $1000 for these is just stupid, no one forced you to buy one, you all volunteered to pay $1000 for a rifle made in China from a company we've all seen products from. Every Norc 1911 I've owned has needed a file to smooth out the sharp edges and every M305/M14 I've owned has needed a little fitting to get things lined up correctly. Why would anyone expect anything different with the Type-81?
Guys seem to think $1000 is a lot of money for a semi auto, well wake up people, look around. What else can you buy for $1000? A T-97, or a Kel-Tec, and everyone complains about those.
Absolutely! No one who willingly paid for anything was ever ripped off. The fact these rifles are bent/broken speaks to the contrary. For a cool $1200 you can have a Kodiak Defense VZ858, less money if you watch the EE. A vastly superior rifle for similar cost.


Put away your lasers and micrometers and just go shoot your rifle, they're very smooth shooting and are a lot of fun. Sitting around crying that it's not perfect is just silly, these are a splitting axe not a scalpel, treat them as such and you'll be much happier.



LMFAO! I would bet that buying an NEA/BCL would give you even less chance of getting a perfect rifle than buying Norinco/Poly, the only difference is that NEA/BCL has a warranty.
AGREED!
Click to expand...


Bartok5 said:
So, Tactical Imports and Norinco are charging a 500% premium on the T81, but it is OK for their customers to rationalize away the fact that they are getting ripped off because they know that they are getting shafted. As if knowing that you are getting ripped-off somehow makes it all OK!?!?
Only getting ripped off if the rifle is faulty, which a good portion of the 81's are. The margin on any product has no bearing on whether or not a consumer is being ripped off. The value of any product is an individual determination.

By your math, North Sylva and M&M Industries are charging a 400% mark-up for the M10X. Even taking into account the distinct likelihood that your numbers are hugely inflated (1st-world production costs versus Dremel grinders for the Norinco monkeys), that means NS and M+M are charging less of a mark-up on the M10X than TI and Norinco did for the T81. Yet by your argument, we are supposed to be outraged about the Canadian price of the M10X?? Your argument is fundamentally flawed....
Click to expand...

cr5 said:
The prices I threw out were just random guesses, if it makes you feel better I'll say BCL probably only has $500 into each 102 yet they retail for $1750. I'm just saying that all companies mark up prices and it's stupid to be mad at them for trying to make a profit. We can control prices but we need to show restraint to do it. Like I said with the T-81, if everyone had said "nice rifle, but too much money" TI would have lowered the price and tried again a week later with some BS "we were able to negotiate a better price" story. Same for the M10x, they see we're desperate for a decent non restricted and throw out a high price, people throw their money down on a pre-order and the price is set. If everyone had said no when they jacked the price $500 the price would have come back down to around $1700-$1800. If people continued to say no at that price they would try again until people started paying or it's no longer profitable to sell. The 102 is no different, they sell their NEA-15 for $1000 and I doubt the 102 costs them more than $40 more to build than it costs to build the -15. With all the overgassing and being finicky with ammo they obviously didn't do much R&D so why is the 102 $750 more? Because we're desperate and they know it. Throw out a pre-sale and it's sold out for the next two production runs and no one has even held one at that point. Had people said "no NEA is worth more than $1200" and said no to the pre-order price we would be buying them for $1200-$1500.
Pre-order is a scam, you think you're buying in to be the first one to have the latest and greatest but the reality is that you're just screwing yourself and paying more for the product which only benefits the manufacturer/importer/retailer.
AGREED!!
Click to expand...


Sinbad said:
After attempting to briefly skim your replies and losing interest because of the enormous size. I realized your a expert on everything. So good for you.

Still waiting for my 81 and won't give a yay or nay until they show up.
Click to expand...
It takes all of 2 minutes to read his entire post, are you really that lazy? By your own admission you failed to read it completely yet you feel informed enough to make an ignorant comment.... Good job.

MustangFrank said:
I think the pre sale marketing approach is the worst thing possible for the consumer. It's one thing if you are "ordering" a known product thats been on the market for a while and has a proven track record. Pre sale for a brand new product is ludicrous. Here's a thought. Certain marketing practices are not allowed by CGN admin such as auctions. Wonder what would happen if they banned this whole pre sale fiasco. ?? How about advertising items for sale when they are available for sale ? You can still hype the crap out of it. We would will still buy it. No one loses.
Click to expand...

So instead of applying some restraint and thinking for yourself you want/need the CGN admin/big brother to hold your hand?? It is not CGN's business to monitor or regulate business. If the time between pre sale and arrival is too much for you(which in this case was retarded long) then take your business elsewhere. However, based on a pole thread nearly 66% of people indicated they would continue to do business with TI even after this circus. Can't blame a vendor for taking your money if you're foolish enough to keep giving it to them.
 
We get, anyone who bought a T81 instead of an SKS is an idiot, and anyone who purchases through a pre-order is a fool and will soon be parted of all his money because well ya know money doesn't grow on trees. Yawn.
 
Kidd X said:
If the rifles are bent and non functional how are they a "bullet hose"? If you were after an AK looking reliable rifle then the 858 is the answer.

]
Click to expand...

Except.....very few of them are bent and non functional. If they are truly non fuctional, as a couple seem to be, then they should be returned. Most of the ones that people are having a panic about are probably just fine.
 
Jaylegger said:
We get, anyone who bought a T81 instead of an SKS is an idiot, and anyone who purchases through a pre-order is a fool and will soon be parted of all his money because well ya know money doesn't grow on trees. Yawn.
Click to expand...

I made a mistake and now its time to erase that mistake ..........WITH A M10x DMR the solution to all my problems come on guys jump on bored what s the worst that could happen ???
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I made a mistake and now its time to erase that mistake ..........WITH A M10x DMR the solution to all my problems come on guys jump on bored what s the worst that could happen ???
Click to expand...

You didn't make a mistake, you were sent a rifle you are not happy with. Simple remedy that shouldn't require psychological counseling.
 
Jaylegger said:
We get, anyone who bought a T81 instead of an SKS is an idiot, and anyone who purchases through a pre-order is a fool and will soon be parted of all his money because well ya know money doesn't grow on trees. Yawn.
Click to expand...

Don't give in and feed the troll who thinks t81 trunions are welded in. They are rivetted.
 
Jaylegger said:
We get, anyone who bought a T81 instead of an SKS is an idiot, and anyone who purchases through a pre-order is a fool and will soon be parted of all his money because well ya know money doesn't grow on trees. Yawn.
Click to expand...

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying buying any Norinco product is a foolish decision. Those with an SKS are much further ahead than those with a Type 81 as far as bang for the buck. Both rifles are garbage..

Gatehouse said:
Except.....very few of them are bent and non functional. If they are truly non fuctional, as a couple seem to be, then they should be returned. Most of the ones that people are having a panic about are probably just fine.
Click to expand...

Would you buy a new car with a bent bumper or door panel? Bent is bent, they aren't supposed to be.

Claven2 said:
Don't give in and feed the troll who thinks t81 trunions are welded in. They are rivetted.
Click to expand...

My apologies, I thought they might actually be welded like other rifles, I see they are even lesser quality riveted, and riveted crooked.
 
Kidd X said:
Would you buy a new car with a bent bumper or door panel? Bent is bent, they aren't supposed to be.

.
Click to expand...

I don't buy cars,I drive pick up trucks.

I expect to recieve what I expect.....These are mass produced Chinese guns, and they are what I expect. I don't expect bent bumpers on a new vehicle and I don't expect mass produced Chinese firearms to have tight tolerances and exemplary QC.

I'm happy with mine, because it met my expectations.
 
I've already seen 2 of these sell in EE for more than what TI was selling them for.......the price is definitely going to go up as demand grows hope I can get my hands on a folder soon cause I'm not gonna pay 1500$ in EE anytime soon
 
badboybeeson said:
Maybe when north sylva takes over they will have a quality control person with cwirh the factory
Click to expand...

SURE !

Like the T97 barrel gouge at the height of the gas port (over drilled the gas port into the barrel's bottom). Yeah like this defect that affected 100% of t97's NSR.

Like North Sylva washed their hands completely of it and did nothing but blame the manufacturer ?



IMG_0055.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom