Dear Ganderite
I recall you worked with/for a powder company so i figure you're the perfect guy to ask this question to:
Currently, my buddy and I use Varget for 308 Hornady 168bthp and 168 amax. (Both in Tikkas).
My load is 168amax, Lapua case, cci 200, 43.7 Varget (44 on virgin brass), 2.81 col, gives 2678fps. (Just for reference) this is about max in my rifle, during load development, going to 44.5 gave tighter groups but i got ejector marks. I never toyed with loading long because at the time i was running Tiikka mags although now i run aics. So switching to a new powder I'm inclined to load further out to gain some case volume.
Varget works great BUT Varget is not getting any cheaper these days, and more importantly, it's becoming increasingly less available (especially 8# jugs). H4895 isn't much better.
So we're talking about trying out a Plan B powder.
We've narrowed it down to:
VV N150
D4895 (Dominion - similar to IMR4895)
D4064 (Dominion - similar to IMR4064).
Obviously the huge plus with Varget is that it's very temperature stable, and being a canister powder it's typically very similar lot-to-lot (I've heard some people say it's not but I've never really had an issue). I guess the downside is that my accuracy node is fairly narrow.
I've read lots of good things about VV powders, namely their lot-to-lot consistency. And seemingly it's commonly in stock at Hirsch (they currently have 25 3.5kg jugs in stock). From what I've read N150 is reasonably temp stable, just less velocity than N540/N550, plus it has a de-coppering compound (maybe that's a gimmick?). In the neighborhood of Varget for price $320/7.7#
The Dominion powders are 'cheap', $160/5#, which is appealing. They're not canister grade so I'd have to verify loads between batches (I kind of do anyways so not a huge deal). But being that they are based off of respective IMR powders, they're potentially not as temperature stable. From what I've read, IMR4895 is not that stable. IMR4064 is supposedly closer to N150 for stability.........but you know what they say about things you read on the internet lol.
Given the above, do you have a recommendation for which powder to try?
Personally, I'm not fond of load development, so once i find something that works i like to stick with it. I'd also add that i potentially might try Hornady 178 eld-m inn the future....so a powder that works for those too would be ideal.
Pretty much all my shooting takes place between ~10-35°c. Also, I'd like to keep my velocity in the same neighborhood for reaching out to further distances (800-1000......anything past that and Id switch to 178eldm or go to 6.5cm).
On a side note, my wife is using Varget for 223 75 eld-m......but it seems like the Plan B powders are not ideally suited for keeping that bullet in the 2800+fps range (supposedly N140 is better?). I have enough Varget left to keep her going for a while......but if one of them WAS a good choice, that might be a consideration.
Sorry for the novel, lol. But you're one of the few people who i believe actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to powder/reloading.
Fred
Fred, when I get a question like this I tend to think in terms of what I would do. But you gave me enough personal hints about yourself that I can tailor the response to you.
I have used the powders you mention to load both 308 and 223.
If you have a load that works with Varget, I suggest you stick with Varget. It is an excellent powder and works at hot and cool temps. I have seem matches spoiled because of ambient temp problems. I buy my Varget at Hummasons, in Ancaster. $290 per 8 pounder. Similar price to other powders, except for N140 and N150, which probably cost more.
For absolute accuracy, I would use N140 or N150, but would then have the temperature issue. They are only about 1 gr apart in speed in a 308.
I load for 3 different 223 target rifles with heavy bullets. One is best with N140. One like N150 and one prefers Varget.
If price was an issue, by all means buy the D4895 or 4064. I assume they are non-canister powders from Valleyfield. I have used several drums of that powder from them and it works well. Not quite as clean and good as N140, but half the price.
You said you were not a fan of load development. Stick with Varget. Buy several jugs of the same lot number.
Call ahead to Hummasons. They need a day’s notice to get powder from their magazine. 905 64-3430
I recall you worked with/for a powder company so i figure you're the perfect guy to ask this question to:
Currently, my buddy and I use Varget for 308 Hornady 168bthp and 168 amax. (Both in Tikkas).
My load is 168amax, Lapua case, cci 200, 43.7 Varget (44 on virgin brass), 2.81 col, gives 2678fps. (Just for reference) this is about max in my rifle, during load development, going to 44.5 gave tighter groups but i got ejector marks. I never toyed with loading long because at the time i was running Tiikka mags although now i run aics. So switching to a new powder I'm inclined to load further out to gain some case volume.
Varget works great BUT Varget is not getting any cheaper these days, and more importantly, it's becoming increasingly less available (especially 8# jugs). H4895 isn't much better.
So we're talking about trying out a Plan B powder.
We've narrowed it down to:
VV N150
D4895 (Dominion - similar to IMR4895)
D4064 (Dominion - similar to IMR4064).
Obviously the huge plus with Varget is that it's very temperature stable, and being a canister powder it's typically very similar lot-to-lot (I've heard some people say it's not but I've never really had an issue). I guess the downside is that my accuracy node is fairly narrow.
I've read lots of good things about VV powders, namely their lot-to-lot consistency. And seemingly it's commonly in stock at Hirsch (they currently have 25 3.5kg jugs in stock). From what I've read N150 is reasonably temp stable, just less velocity than N540/N550, plus it has a de-coppering compound (maybe that's a gimmick?). In the neighborhood of Varget for price $320/7.7#
The Dominion powders are 'cheap', $160/5#, which is appealing. They're not canister grade so I'd have to verify loads between batches (I kind of do anyways so not a huge deal). But being that they are based off of respective IMR powders, they're potentially not as temperature stable. From what I've read, IMR4895 is not that stable. IMR4064 is supposedly closer to N150 for stability.........but you know what they say about things you read on the internet lol.
Given the above, do you have a recommendation for which powder to try?
Personally, I'm not fond of load development, so once i find something that works i like to stick with it. I'd also add that i potentially might try Hornady 178 eld-m inn the future....so a powder that works for those too would be ideal.
Pretty much all my shooting takes place between ~10-35°c. Also, I'd like to keep my velocity in the same neighborhood for reaching out to further distances (800-1000......anything past that and Id switch to 178eldm or go to 6.5cm).
On a side note, my wife is using Varget for 223 75 eld-m......but it seems like the Plan B powders are not ideally suited for keeping that bullet in the 2800+fps range (supposedly N140 is better?). I have enough Varget left to keep her going for a while......but if one of them WAS a good choice, that might be a consideration.
Sorry for the novel, lol. But you're one of the few people who i believe actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to powder/reloading.
Fred
Fred, when I get a question like this I tend to think in terms of what I would do. But you gave me enough personal hints about yourself that I can tailor the response to you.
I have used the powders you mention to load both 308 and 223.
If you have a load that works with Varget, I suggest you stick with Varget. It is an excellent powder and works at hot and cool temps. I have seem matches spoiled because of ambient temp problems. I buy my Varget at Hummasons, in Ancaster. $290 per 8 pounder. Similar price to other powders, except for N140 and N150, which probably cost more.
For absolute accuracy, I would use N140 or N150, but would then have the temperature issue. They are only about 1 gr apart in speed in a 308.
I load for 3 different 223 target rifles with heavy bullets. One is best with N140. One like N150 and one prefers Varget.
If price was an issue, by all means buy the D4895 or 4064. I assume they are non-canister powders from Valleyfield. I have used several drums of that powder from them and it works well. Not quite as clean and good as N140, but half the price.
You said you were not a fan of load development. Stick with Varget. Buy several jugs of the same lot number.
Call ahead to Hummasons. They need a day’s notice to get powder from their magazine. 905 64-3430
