Powder mixup - H4895 and 4064

[VinnyQC]

Sunray has nothing to do with this thread.

I could do a test to prove this out (as I've done many times for other things in reloading), but I have nothing to prove to myself, and I have found that if I do something to prove it to others, it's generally pointless. Too many will simply cling to their original google-supported position and dismiss the test as inconclusive. Almost no-one does original testing anymore.

If I was so inclined and performed the following test, tell us what would happen, and why in your own words:

308 Win, 175 gr Sierra, 2.800" OAL

42.7 grs H4895
42.2 grs H4895, 0.5 grs IMR4064 - 99:1 ratio (almost twice as much IMR4064 as there'd be in this thread's example)
38.4 grs H4895, 4.3 grs IMR4064 - 90:10
34.2 grs H4895, 8.5 grs IMR4064 - 80:20
30.0 grs H4895, 12.7 grs IMR4064 - 70:30
25.6 grs H4895, 17.1 grs IMR4064 - 60:40
21.4 grs H4895, 21.3 grs IMR4064 - 50:50

Or:
42.7 grs of IMR4064 - 0:100 ratio

Still fine, you're at the low end of the load.

 

[hometownhero]

powder that cost $25.00

I would love to get powder for $25 a pound. Sadly this is Canada and right around $50 plus taxes and shipping is where it is at.

 

[Gatehouse]

Shake and carry on. The two powders are actually the same powder that has been extruded and cut differently. They are basically interchangeable.

I'm surprised that this thread went longer than than this.

Ganderite is like effing Yoda with powders.

 

[Gatehouse]

45 grains of a slightly slower powder added to 7000 grs?

This is such a no-brainer that aside from an attempt to educate on why it can/should be used, I can't believe there are so many posts.

And Andy's contributuion should also have made the thread dead

 

[Andy]

Sunray has nothing to do with this thread.

I could do a test to prove this out (as I've done many times for other things in reloading), but I have nothing to prove to myself, and I have found that if I do something to prove it to others, it's generally pointless. Too many will simply cling to their original google-supported position and dismiss the test as inconclusive. Almost no-one does original testing anymore.

If I was so inclined and performed the following test, tell us what would happen, and why in your own words:

308 Win, 175 gr Sierra, 2.800" OAL

1. 42.7 grs H4895
2. 42.2 grs H4895, 0.5 grs IMR4064 - 99:1 ratio (almost twice as much IMR4064 as there'd be in this thread's example)
3. 38.4 grs H4895, 4.3 grs IMR4064 - 90:10
4. 34.2 grs H4895, 8.5 grs IMR4064 - 80:20
5. 30.0 grs H4895, 12.7 grs IMR4064 - 70:30
6. 25.6 grs H4895, 17.1 grs IMR4064 - 60:40
7. 21.4 grs H4895, 21.3 grs IMR4064 - 50:50

I would expect that loads 1 and 2 would produce essentially the same MV (within the normal variations) and that you'd see a trend towards lower MV in loads 3 through 7.

If this had happened to me, I'd first try to scoop off a thin upper layer of powder to remove as much IMR4064 as possible, and I'd then shake it vigorously and carry on as if it was H4895. Of course someone will say it's dangerous to shake it, but that's covered in the various "Should I tumble dirty ammo" threads........ uggh.

Combinations such as found in loads 3-7 would be of no use to me unless I had several pounds of it. With less than that (certainly one pound), I'd discard it, not for safety reasons, but because I have no use for a small quantity of a unique powder - it takes too long to develop a good load for "orphan" powders.

All this said, there's far more fear displayed in the Reloading Forum than any other. Ignorance is the main cause, and education the remedy, replacing fear with healthy respect.

We rightly welcome Ganderite's knowledge and experience.

 

[nowarningshot]

Another vote for sticking this thread.

Someone.....gave me 900 lbs....and I still have some. Wow, I have reloaded 30 years, know for a fact, I have not come close to using 900 lbs.

Hope your property isn't in a tight packed cul-de-sac.

 

[Dogleg]

I would love to get powder for $25 a pound. Sadly this is Canada and right around $50 plus taxes and shipping is where it is at.

Convert the $25 US to Canadian looney. Order from
Higginsons. One tax, no shipping. Wish granted.

 

[hometownhero]

Convert the $25 US to Canadian looney. Order from
Higginsons. One tax, no shipping. Wish granted.

Have to order a large quantity got get away with no shipping. Even then it still isn't the $25 a pound he was saying is so cheap he can throw any amount away.

 

[Ganderite]

Another vote for sticking this thread.

Someone.....gave me 900 lbs....and I still have some. Wow, I have reloaded 30 years, know for a fact, I have not come close to using 900 lbs.

Hope your property isn't in a tight packed cul-de-sac.

In my role as a consultant to the powder company I would distribute test powders (like the powder we made with moly as a lubricant and a reduced coating of graphite) to shooters, to get feedback. Most of the shortcut 4895 went to Target Rifle shooters at an attractive price.

 

[Ganderite]

I would expect that loads 1 and 2 would produce essentially the same MV (within the normal variations) and that you'd see a trend towards lower MV in loads 3 through 7.

If this had happened to me, I'd first try to scoop off a thin upper layer of powder to remove as much IMR4064 as possible, and I'd then shake it vigorously and carry on as if it was H4895. Of course someone will say it's dangerous to shake it, but that's covered in the various "Should I tumble dirty ammo" threads........ uggh.

Combinations such as found in loads 3-7 would be of no use to me unless I had several pounds of it. With less than that (certainly one pound), I'd discard it, not for safety reasons, but because I have no use for a small quantity of a unique powder - it takes too long to develop a good load for "orphan" powders.

All this said, there's far more fear displayed in the Reloading Forum than any other. Ignorance is the main cause, and education the remedy, replacing fear with healthy respect.

We rightly welcome Ganderite's knowledge and experience.

My thoughts, too.

I tend to do a lot of shooting and a lot of load development. I have multiple guns in many calibers (over 20 each in some calibers) so if I develop a load for each one of them, I want lots of that powder on hand, so I don't have to repeat the whole process.

A pound of powder is not much good to me. If a pound got contaminated I would probably use it up making a couple hundred rounds of 308 or 223 plinking ammo.

 

[Ganderite]

Sunray has nothing to do with this thread.

I could do a test to prove this out (as I've done many times for other things in reloading), but I have nothing to prove to myself, and I have found that if I do something to prove it to others, it's generally pointless. Too many will simply cling to their original google-supported position and dismiss the test as inconclusive. Almost no-one does original testing anymore.

If I was so inclined and performed the following test, tell us what would happen, and why in your own words:

308 Win, 175 gr Sierra, 2.800" OAL

1. 42.7 grs H4895
2. 42.2 grs H4895, 0.5 grs IMR4064 - 99:1 ratio (almost twice as much IMR4064 as there'd be in this thread's example)
3. 38.4 grs H4895, 4.3 grs IMR4064 - 90:10
4. 34.2 grs H4895, 8.5 grs IMR4064 - 80:20
5. 30.0 grs H4895, 12.7 grs IMR4064 - 70:30
6. 25.6 grs H4895, 17.1 grs IMR4064 - 60:40
7. 21.4 grs H4895, 21.3 grs IMR4064 - 50:50

First off, I don't know if any of these loads would be safe in my 308. I would work up to load #1, before running the test. My 308 uses a .3065 x .3075 barrel and has a short throat, so I cannot assume someone else's load will work in mine.

If the above test was run, the differences in the powder composition would have such a small impact on velocity that they could be lost in the noise of other variables, such as case weight (capacity) and neck tension.

 

[Purple shoulder]

Sorry. Screwed up.

 

[Suther]

Man i love reading Ganderite's posts. So much more useful info than the biology lecture I'm currently sitting through...