Powder mixup - H4895 and 4064

[tootall]

Ganderite,

I recall you mentioning that Short Cut experiment before, and that the labcoats didnt see any pressure/velocity difference so considered it a flop.
The 900 lb of free powder is a nice consolation prize though!

Yes, I have heard of holes running lengthwise through the kernels for Progressive burning.
Years ago, I visited the original Old Western Scrounger, aka Dangerous Dave Cumberlan when he was still in CA.
http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=90
He had a single kernel of powder from a USN 16" battleship gun.
It was about the size of a adult pinky finger! And it had 7 holes running lengthwise.
The MGI method

 

[Ganderite]

Ganderite, just out of curiousity, in your experienced opinion how much more 4064 would he have to mix in before you wouldn't use the 1lb?

There is no amount of a mix of those 2 powders I would not use. And unless I was loading max, I would not give it much thought.

I have about 50 pounds of 4895 that is contaminated with about 10 pounds of BLC2. I just shake it and use as my plinker grade ammo for any application where max accuracy/velocity is not an issue. It all goes bang.

I once had a long conversation with a Ph.D. running a powder research lab about this issue. He said the net result of any mixture is a loss of performance (velocity) below both powders. That is, mixing powders can never help.

 

[Parts]

So, it's more a contamination scenerio than enhancement?

 

[Ganderite]

So, it's more a contamination scenerio than enhancement?

Exactly. But contamination does not matter a whole lot, so long as you know about it, make an adjustment and shake the can.

 

[liberty]

I would listen to Granderite...

 

[tootall]

Thats odd.
I would expect the blend to be somewhere in between the two burn rates.

 

[flashman2]

Ganderite, Hodgdons H4895 is faster burning than IMR-4895 and IMR-4064 is slower burning than both.

Yeah. So the OP dumped a minuscule amount of a slower burning powder into a faster burning one.

What's the potential problem, exactly?

He could substitute 4064 at 100% of the max charge of H4895 and be just fine.

 

[hometownhero]

Listen to Granderite he knows what he is talking about better then anyone on here I would say.

To put it another way you basically mixed a table spoon into a pound of sugar will you taste the difference after you mix it up? Doubt it.

 

[safehunter]

So many people just load by the book, without a book they woukdnt know where to start or what to do. i love these threads and mostly Granderite posts on the subject,

X2. I think ive learned more from ganderites posts then any reloading manual. Cant express my gratitude enough for helping us all in this sport.

 

[RonR]

X2. I think ive learned more from ganderites posts then any reloading manual. Cant express my gratitude enough for helping us all in this sport.

x3.

Regards
Ronr

 

[ipscgraz]

Gotta love information.

Another vote to sticky this thread.

 

[Ganderite]

Thats odd.
I would expect the blend to be somewhere in between the two burn rates.

Yes, logic suggests that.

The way he explained it to me is that the peak pressure will be determined by the faster powder, so you loose the higher velocity available by the slower powder.

This is different than duplex loads, which is another issue.

 

[bigedp51]

Yeah. So the OP dumped a minuscule amount of a slower burning powder into a faster burning one.

What's the potential problem, exactly?

He could substitute 4064 at 100% of the max charge of H4895 and be just fine.

It isn't the amount the OP mixed, its what may be interpreted by new reloaders or brain dead people like our old forum member sunray who reads this posting.

The next thing that happens when this is spread from forum to forum is it OK to mix powders. And this "IS" what bothers me and what can happen.

I also enjoy Ganderite's postings and he is a wealth of information and knowledge. "BUT" what has been said here can and will be distorted into something far beyond what Ganderite said when its spread around the Internet.

I dumped half a hopper full of H335 into a can of H4895 and dumped the powder in the toilet. So call me a wussy but I saw a rifle let go at the range and this shooters right eye hanging out of its socket and laying on his cheek. And what happened that day made me a cautious and hopefully a safer reloader.

And what is missing here is not everyone who reloads will have Ganderite's experience and common sense. And the key words in this posting are experience and common sense.

 

[Ganderite]

"Exactly. But contamination does not matter a whole lot, so long as you know about it, make an adjustment and shake the can."

This is where knowledge and experience comes in. Which is what we share here on the Forum.

 

[K-C]

It's a great pity that SUNRAY can't weigh in on this thread

Giving powder the "royal flush"?? Shame on you BigEd !! I keep my scrap powder for some burn-barrel fun.

 

[bigedp51]

mixology is always complicated and sometime hotly debated, James Bond preferred his shaken and not stirred.

And I like to stir things up.

 

[Ganderite]

Mixology. Just to be sure I am clear.

You cannot mix powders to achieve a "better" powder.

You can mix various lots of the same powder to make one, larger homogeneous lot of powder.

If you accidently add a little of one powder to a larger batch of another (like emptying the powder thrower into the wrong can) you can shake it up and carry on, making an adjustment to how the main ingredient has been affected.

The main danger is emptying a hopper of pistol powder (ball powder) into a can of ball rifle powder (this will be un-noticeable). The next time the can is used, a high percentage of pistol powder will be loaded as rifle powder. This blows up rifles quite regularly.

For this reason you should be very careful to only have one can of powder on the bench at a time. And, if you leave powder in the hopper, stick a label on it.

 

[flashman2]

It isn't the amount the OP mixed, its what may be interpreted by new reloaders or brain dead people like our old forum member sunray who reads this posting.

The next thing that happens when this is spread from forum to forum is it OK to mix powders. And this "IS" what bothers me and what can happen.

I also enjoy Ganderite's postings and he is a wealth of information and knowledge. "BUT" what has been said here can and will be distorted into something far beyond what Ganderite said when its spread around the Internet.

I dumped half a hopper full of H335 into a can of H4895 and dumped the powder in the toilet. So call me a wussy but I saw a rifle let go at the range and this shooters right eye hanging out of its socket and laying on his cheek. And what happened that day made me a cautious and hopefully a safer reloader.

And what is missing here is not everyone who reloads will have Ganderite's experience and common sense. And the key words in this posting are experience and common sense.

Fair enough, but catering to the dumbest lowest common denominator isn't really a good way for the more sensible to advance their knowledge.

If someone were to read this thread and figure mixing pistol powder into rifle at high percentages was ok, well... that's on them. Can't babysit people and I'd posit someone that dumb is bound to kaboom themselves eventually anyway.

The right answer was given for this particular situation. Giving the wrong answer in order to cater to the dummies or newbs doesn't seem to be very productive to me.

 

[flashman2]

It's a great pity that SUNRAY can't weigh in on this thread

Seriously. Is he haunting any other boards these days?

 

[flashman2]

X2. I think ive learned more from ganderites posts then any reloading manual. Cant express my gratitude enough for helping us all in this sport.

X4.

Ganderite should have his own sticky for a post of the week passing on his knowledge.