Precision/F-class Reloading Steps

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RunningRiver

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Hi folks,

I'm pretty new to reloading. I started with the goal of being able to do highly consistent reloads for my 6.5 PRC. I did ask about neck turning, and in-general tools to get for this journey a couple of months back, and now after some saving I have a few new things arriving soon. I want to ask the community if what I'm planning on doing for reloading steps seems right - basically - I don't want to F this up.

Steps

1. Decapping die
2. Tumble Clean brass
3. Anneal(AMP)
4. Expander die
5. Neck turn to get ensure uniform neck thickness
6. Sonic Clean to remove cutting oil
7. Dry brass
8. FL Resizing Die with bushing
9. Trim cartridge length
10. Deburr & Chamfer
11. Clean Primer Pocket & Flash hole
12. Tumble
13. Prime
14. Powder charge (autothrow v3)
15. Seating

Thank you so much!
 
Wouldn't step 4 come after step 8?

Full length size > Expander die.

I`m assuming you would leave the expander ball out of the full length die as thats what the expander die is for.

I'd recommend some graphite type lubricant for the necks, particularly if you are annealing.
 
The reason I didn't add weighing the brass was the gospel of Erik Cortina. I don't remember his exact reasons but I am using high quality ADG brass
 
Sniffer said:
Wouldn't step 4 come after step 8?

Full length size > Expander die.

I`m assuming you would leave the expander ball out of the full length die as thats what the expander die is for.

I'd recommend some graphite type lubricant for the necks, particularly if you are annealing.
Click to expand...

This is why I'm asking! I would of thought it better to use the expander die before neck turning and to do this before FL resizing... Should I be doing steps 4/5 after resizing, or keep it as is, and then add another step after 8 where I run the brass through the expander die again?
 
I would suggest this order for the steps

1. Decapping die using a cheap press and universal die to keep the crap from good equipment
2. check for donuts using Forester inside reamer on fired cases only
3. size the case
4. Run through an expander die for uniform inside neck dia
5. Tumble to clean case and primer pockets using SS pins
6. dry brass using heater or oven
7. Trim, deburr & chamber cases using a 3 way trimmer
8. Anneal cases
9. Prime
10. Powder charge (autothrow v3)
11. Seating

I don't bother weighing cases any more since what you really need to find out is variation in case volume and most of the weight variance is in the machining for the extractor groove.

I only neck turn after the first firing and then check the brass after.

This eliminates a lots of steps and does exactly the same job.
 
Since you were saving indicates that the budget is not unlimited, so with that:

Assuming you have a quality press,

Dies that produce a concentric loaded round and tool to measure this.
Redding body die.
Either a hand held or bench priming tool.
A scale that is user friendly and resolves to 0.020 grains.
Neck turning tool.
Lee case length and trim tool.
Case mouth chamfer tools.
Lee collet die.
Lee factory crimp die.
Lee universal chuck.
Dial caliper and comparator tool.
0-1" micrometer.
Accurate chronograph.
Quickload Internal Ballistic software.
Plus associated brushes, shell holders etc.

I have a vibritory case cleaner and an ultra-sonic cleaner but have not used these for years, that is not where the accuracy is.
Accuracy is found using the right tools to achieve desired results and the ability to measure this accuracy.

An AMP annealing machine would be nice , especially when annealing large quantities of brass on a frequent basis. For my purposes I use a propane torch spinning in a socket, low tech for sure , but my ES's are competitive.

Applying knowledge and practice, with the tools listed above, you will find yourself on the podium once in awhile.
 
RunningRiver said:
Hi folks,

I'm pretty new to reloading. I started with the goal of being able to do highly consistent reloads for my 6.5 PRC. I did ask about neck turning, and in-general tools to get for this journey a couple of months back, and now after some saving I have a few new things arriving soon. I want to ask the community if what I'm planning on doing for reloading steps seems right - basically - I don't want to F this up.

Steps

1. Decapping die
2. Tumble Clean brass
3. Anneal(AMP)
4. Expander die
5. Neck turn to get ensure uniform neck thickness
6. Sonic Clean to remove cutting oil
7. Dry brass
8. FL Resizing Die with bushing
9. Trim cartridge length
10. Deburr & Chamfer
11. Clean Primer Pocket & Flash hole
12. Tumble
13. Prime
14. Powder charge (autothrow v3)
15. Seating

Thank you so much!
Click to expand...

Good Evening

You have one time only steps included in your reloading order

Neck turning you might have to turn a second time after a few firing but lets focus on turning once to get the right thickness

Part I
1. Clean Primer Pocket (if you are talking about squaring up primer pockets) this exercise goes here (don't touch the flash hole)
2. Neck turn to get ensure uniform neck thickness
3. Sonic Clean to remove cutting oil
4. Dry brass



Part II first firing

1. FL Resizing Die with bushing
2. Trim cartridge length
3. Deburr & Chamfer
4. Tumble
5. Prime
6. Expander die
7. Powder charge (autothrow v3)
8. Seating
9. have fun


Part III once fired brass
Steps

1. Decapping die
2. Anneal(AMP)
5. Tumble Clean brass depending the cleaning method used primer pocket cleaning will be here
6. FL Resizing Die with bushing
5. Trim cartridge length (check brass growth it may or may not grow depending on cartridge)
6. Deburr & Chamfer
7. Tumble
8. Prime
9. Expander die
10. Powder charge (autothrow v3)
11. Seating


Cheers
Trevor
 
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What are your ultimate goals? Are you planning on competing in F-class? Or just a hobby shooter that wants to make reloads as precise as possible?

Since you are getting started in reloading, I would say that good quality components, good quality reloading gear, and keeping your process simple and repeatable is what you should focus on.

Autotrickler V3, a good single stage press (I use Forster Co-ax), good dies (I personally use Whidden, and their click adjustable FL sizers are awesome), AMP annealer, Giraud trimmer (you can do your steps #9 and #10 all in one step), a good priming tool (I just got the CPS primer seater), good set of micrometers, etc. Also, I recommend starting with good components as well - lapua brass, berger bullets, etc. For example, simply swapping from Hornady and RUAG brass to Lapua cut my ES in half, so quality components matter.

Turning necks is probably a waste of time - very marginal if any performance to be gained there, unless you have a chamber that requires it. I also don't weigh brass, clean primer pockets, uniform primer pockets or deburr flash holes.
 
My process.. this is with fired brass that hit the dirt...

tumble clean
spray lube, bump shoulder with Redding body die 2 thou bump... 3 thou if in dirty conditions. This is not 'working' ammo.
tumble clean again.
Lee collet neck die will neck size and decap. This is a mechanical die so you will need some leverage on the press handle to size. you will feel it as the brass moves.
Outside neck turning IS important and I will do it every firing or two.... brass flows. You do not want it to build up and create donuts.
Trim as needed, deburr
Clean primer pocket
Prime
Weigh powder to the 0.02gr if you want to get best results at 1000yds.
Seat bullet. for most bullets, I find Forster seaters to be ideal.

Shoot...

Annealing is really important. do it right with the right gear. Every 2 to 3 firings

Jerry
 
In .308 I shoot the slow node... neck turning every 2-3 firings and barely skimming any if at all at the neck base.

In 6.5x47Lapua I shoot a stiff load... I neck turn every firing and I definitely remove a good amount at the base. If left unturned, I get inconsistent results as the neck is too tight for factory thickness lapua brass.

Edit, made a recent similar thread lately, here are my steps, which are unnecessarily done every firing...

A. Dry tumble clean (no wet tumbling ever!)
B. AMP anneal
C. Forster honed FLS die with expander ball removed
D. Graphite neck lube and expanding mandrel die. My honed die makes for a 1 thou expansion only.
E. Primer pocket uniform with K&M power tool
F. Trim/chamfer/deburr on my Giraud rip-off machine
G. Neck turn with power case holder and K&M turner
H. Prime with Forster co-ax primer
I. Powder with FX120 and auto dingles
J. Seat bullet with Forster micrometer seater

Maybe the process could be refined still,
But since it’s been tuned to this specific way I got my record (and repeatable) targets to date.
 
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MartyK2500 said:
In .308 I shoot the slow node... neck turning every 2-3 firings and barely skimming any if at all at the neck base.

In 6.5x47Lapua I shoot a stiff load... I neck turn every firing and I definitely remove a good amount at the base. If left unturned, I get inconsistent results as the neck is too tight for factory thickness lapua brass.

Edit, made a recent similar thread lately, here are my steps, which are unnecessarily done every firing...

A. Dry tumble clean (no wet tumbling ever!)
B. AMP anneal
C. Forster honed FLS die with expander ball removed
D. Graphite neck lube and expanding mandrel die. My honed die makes for a 1 thou expansion only.
E. Primer pocket uniform with K&M power tool
F. Trim/chamfer/deburr on my Giraud rip-off machine
G. Neck turn with power case holder and K&M turner
H. Prime with Forster co-ax primer
I. Powder with FX120 and auto dingles
J. Seat bullet with Forster micrometer seater

Maybe the process could be refined still,
But since it’s been tuned to this specific way I got my record (and repeatable) targets to date.
Click to expand...

Don't forget to add that you neck turn because your chamber was setup that way, not because you want to :p
 
kthomas said:
If you have a properly spec'ed chamber, there's no reason to neck turn.
Click to expand...

When shooting F Class precision, we don't like to leave anything to chance.

Some guys think neck turning doesn't help but it depends on many factors including specific chamber designs. But most importantly accuracy expectations over the aggregate.... Not just a few hastily fired rounds during load development.

Lots of guys believe that consistent neck tension is critical, and you will never have more consistent neck tension than with neck turned brass,

If you believe runout matters to the smallest degree, then a tight neck chamber and neck turned brass is how you get there.

I never resize my necks more than 0.003" and never ever use an expander mandrel.

Every time you process your brass you are creating runout. A fired case has no runout.

Turn your necks and drop the expander process.
 
Someday I want to get a reamer that can cut a no 'brass flow' neck...

But first, I want to get the "no more fat belly" pants. I think these will have a very practical benefit

Some posts just make me smile.

Jerry
 
Maple57 said:
When shooting F Class precision, we don't like to leave anything to chance.

Some guys think neck turning doesn't help but it depends on many factors including specific chamber designs. But most importantly accuracy expectations over the aggregate.... Not just a few hastily fired rounds during load development.

Lots of guys believe that consistent neck tension is critical, and you will never have more consistent neck tension than with neck turned brass,

If you believe runout matters to the smallest degree, then a tight neck chamber and neck turned brass is how you get there.

I never resize my necks more than 0.003" and never ever use an expander mandrel.

Every time you process your brass you are creating runout. A fired case has no runout.

Turn your necks and drop the expander process.
Click to expand...

Not even benchrest shooters agree on this, and some world records have been set without neck turning.

Since the OP is getting into reloading, I think the best thing for him (or her) to do, is to keep the process as simple as possible and consistent as possible. Keep the inputs as simple as possible, and as experience, comfort level and knowledge expands, so can the inputs.

From there, they can grow and experiment, and learn the nuances of how different factors effect internal and external ballistics. At that point, if they want to play with neck turning to get their already dialed in process more precise (or not), then they can.

I don't believe adding as many inputs and factors as possible into a process like reloading is conducive to a good learning experience for a beginner. Focus on the basics with good quality equipment and good quality components, and that will get you ~98% there. Once that is dialed in, you can experiment to get the other ~2%.
 
I am an advocate of neck turning

Guys that design custom "no turn neck" reamers turn necks.
Neck turning has material benefits to your group size.
It is a long an laborious process, which is a major turn off for allot of people.

The consensus is that neck turning produces positive results but the time an energy needed to do this step doesn't make it worth while for some.

Expanding necks.
I am not referring to the process where you have a expander die Sinclair or other which is .001 under your turning mandrel.
I am referring to the relatively new process of using dedicated pin gauges or 21 century expander pins to expand by a specific amt inside of your neck for consistent neck tension. The lee collect process has been around for awhile, the newer process (maybe just to me) has been around for three - four years.

A dedicated bushing pin gauge combination that provides a specific amt of grip on the bullet called "interference fit" which has been tested to provide more consistent neck tension and better results
https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/questions-about-using-pin-gages-for-neck-expanding.4000328/

this is deep end of the pool reloading, don't overwhelm yourself with some of these steps.

The more accuracy dependent the discipline the more steps needed to be competitive. 1,000yrd BR, short range BR, F Class, PRS an hunting

with your 6.5 PRC using a good scale with give you a good starting point and get you out shooting.

Cheers
Trevor
 
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I would agree that neck turning without a tight neck has minimal benefit as the process is adding clearance to an already cleared part of the chamber, but it can help stabilize neck tension, but not concentricity.

But neck turning with a tight neck has clear benefits for both neck tension and concentricity as well as lengthen the bullet guidance into the rifling. This is highly advantageous with short throats.
 
Maple57 said:
I would agree that neck turning without a tight neck has minimal benefit as the process is adding clearance to an already cleared part of the chamber, but it can help stabilize neck tension, but not concentricity.

But neck turning with a tight neck has clear benefits for both neck tension and concentricity as well as lengthen the bullet guidance into the rifling. This is highly advantageous with short throats.
Click to expand...

I agree, a tight neck chamber is a different story.

I'm going to assume the OP doesn't have a tight neck chamber, but rather a SAAMI spec 6.5 PRC chamber.

But that's just an assumption ...
 
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