Preferred loads or bullets for .233 / 7" twist ...

I've been playing with Berger 70 gr VLD's and RL-15 between 24.0 - 24.9 with great results.

The Berger 70 gr VLD has a better BC than my Sierra 77 SMK's, they stabilize in my 1/9" twist barrel and load to mag length (2.260") in my AR15.
 
1/7 twist 223 rem

Its hard to beat 80gr VLD and 90grVLD Bergers, I never had consistant success with Hornady Amaxs with RL 15/VT 540 VT 550 they all will work well the 540 will give you the best speed, stay away from the faster powders that work with the 40 to 60gr bullets in 223 like H335,Benchmark, VT133,
Friend fired 5 bullets cleaning after each shot then fired some 5 shot groups at 100y I have seen these 80gr shoot more than 5 or 6 groups at 300y .600 and a .520 all 5 shot groups
Action was a Savage/Tru Flite Barrel at 30"
SavageRobertson002.jpg

First 5 cleaning after each shot
SavageRobertson018.jpg

5 shots without cleaning
SavageRobertson015.jpg
SavageRobertson014.jpg

SavageRobertson016.jpg
 
Tikka223 said:
Hello folks ... I'm trying to determine what my Savage 12 VLP will shoot the best. Actually, what I would love to figure out is what is the absolute best I can expect from the rifle so I know how much my shooting skills take away from the group sizes. It's .233 Rem with a 1-7 twist. Thus far I've shot Hornady's 55gr. V-max and 75 gr. BTHP, both out of box ammo. I've also shot a couple groups of Nosler 55gr.

So far, if everything goes well on my part, the Savage is giving me groups of around .8" at 100m. I recently took it to 300m on a windy day with the BTHPs and I got group sizes of 4.32", 3.01" and 3.46".

I am going to get some help learning to hand load some BTHPs and I'm hoping it will shrink the groups slightly.

I'm slowly reading through Jerry's 90gr. Berger VLD threat.

Any other suggestions for ammo or loads. Savage owners, please speak up.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

There are things a 1:7 twist barrel does very well, in fact there is only a single disadvantage IMHO, and that is that it makes the use of thin skinned varmint bullets, specifically the Sierra Blitz and Hornady SX, developed for use in the .222 and .223 unreliable. Its not an accuracy problem, in fact my 1:7 shot 52 gr MKs very well, its the fact that the forces produced by the fast spin are more than these bullets can withstand and there is a tendency for them to come apart in flight. At .222 velocities, about 3 in 10 wouldn't make it to the target, and those that did expanded so explosively, they failed to produce sufficient penetration for humane kills on even 10 pound targets. On a still day, the mid-range bullet failure is visible.

That said I like fast twist barrels. Despite the minor issue I experienced with thin skinned .224" varmint bullets, a standard twist barrel is always left wanting when you want to shoot longish bullets.
 
Boomer, some water filled milk jugs are 500m hit with 90gr Berger BT and VLD going over 2800fps.

I think this would be plenty for any varmint you encounter... maybe even larger game.

[youtube]kbZnB-GLU9E[/youtube]

I am really liking my 7 twist and these heavies. Reaching 1000yds hasn't been much of an issue either.

Enjoy...
Jerry
 
Still don't have a camera but the results are all that count. I took a screenshot of my spreadsheet and graphed the results (elevation only not windage).

All this data is for the 75gn Hornady AMAX. It's clear that 24.1gn seems like the hot spot. I think tonight I'll load up 3 of:

  • 22.7
  • 23.0
  • 23.5 (first group showed 2/3 in the same hole, one flyer)
  • 24.0
  • 24.2
  • 24.8

That will leave me with 22 bulets left to play with seating depth. Hope this helps anyone looking for 75gn AMAX results!

Results1.png

RangeResults2.png
 
Mystic Precision said:
Boomer, some water filled milk jugs are 500m hit with 90gr Berger BT and VLD going over 2800fps.

I think this would be plenty for any varmint you encounter... maybe even larger game.

[youtube]kbZnB-GLU9E[/youtube]

I am really liking my 7 twist and these heavies. Reaching 1000yds hasn't been much of an issue either.

Enjoy...
Jerry
Click to expand...

Pretty nice shooting Jerry . . . from a plane too! :D

I'm not sold on Walt Berger's idea of game bullet performance, even though there are lots of folks who will line up to say it works. A pal of mine here is truly enamored with them. The idea that a bullet penetrates into the vitals of a game animal, then grenades like a varmint bullet once in there to create a massive wound volume sounds good on paper, but it is more difficult to ensure in the field. That sort of thing has worked out badly in the past when Weatherby loaded violently expanding bullets in his .300 and .340 magnum ammunition, and African hunters still speak poorly of Art Alpin's Lion Bullet, which might have performed wonderfully on a broadside shot, but one day when a hunter was charged and had to shoot head on, the bullet expended all of it's energy on the lion's teeth, where a conventional hunting bullet would have saved the day.

Still, for the man who is a dedicated long range game shot, at ranges where the impact velocity is greatly reduced, Bergers and perhaps Matrix remain the top choices as no true game bullets are as slippery.
 
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I agree. These are not all around hunting bullets by any stretch. the same tech was offered in the orig nosler ballistic tip and it was critised for years. Then they hardened the design all has been well.

Bergers, or amax, or MK's or whatever are all thin jacketed bullets. They will expand at much lower velocity then conventional bullets which make them ideal LR bullets BUT come apart at short range.

If you get it right, like a hammer of Thor. Get it wrong and there is no sig blood trail, etc etc

Off topic but some hunters will apply a wonderful bullet in the wrong way and get really bad results.

I was stunned that the 90's still grenaded at 500m with that much disruption.

For smoking a pooch, it would work very nicely.

Jerry
 
First attempt at load development ...

Here are the results of some load development ... my first. Rifle is my Savage 12 VLP with the 1/7 twist.

Using Hornady 75gr. BTHP with Hornady .223 Rem brass, H4895 powder, Federal 205M primer, and a .01" jump to the lands.

T1:

Group 1 shot with 22.5gr of powder.
Group 2 shot with 23gr of powder.
Group 3 shot with 23.5gr of power. (hard to say if this was luck or if I need to explore this powder range a little more)
Group 4 shot with 24gr of powder.

T2:

Group 1&2 shot with 24.3 gr of powder.
Group 3&4 shot with 24.5 gr of powder.

T3:

Using 75gr AMAX with same brass, primers and powder and a .05" jam into the lands.

Group 1&2 shot with 24.5 gr of powder.

IMG_2809.jpg


IMG_2808.jpg


IMG_2807.jpg
 
Working out my loads as well for my .223 9 twist sage with 68gr hrn BTHP's All loaded to 2.260 COL. First firing of the Nosler Brass . Varget CCI-BR4's.

24gr Varget 5 shots 1.32"

24.2 5 shots .87"

24.6 5 shots .93"

24.8 5 shots 1.68" vertical aligned

25gr 5 shots 1.31"

25.2gr 5 shots .61" flat vertical.

25.4gr 5 shots .89"

I think I got a lucky barrel
 
24.1 is supposed to be a hot spot (also seen in my graph). I'd explore more of the lighter loads around 24.1 and adjust the seating depth for 25.2 next time you load.
 
Are any of you trying/having luck with the 90 gn with the factory throat on the Savage barrel. Ready Mystic's thread I see that a long throat may be required or the bullet has to sit too deep in the case, reducing powder capacity and velocity.

I am getting a new to me Savage 1:7 twist this week and looking forward to load development over the fall/winter.
 
I'm waiting to test the 90gn bullets, currently working on everything from 65gn gamekings to 80gn VLDs


From Left to Right:

65gn Sierra Game King
69gn Sierra Match King
75gn Hornady AMAX
77gn Nosler Competition HPBT
77gn Lapua Scenar HPBT
80gn Hornady AMAX
80gn Berger VLD
TestBullets2.jpg


TestBullets1.jpg



Heres the first two trials with the Horandy 75gn AMAX, from 300 yards! (graphical resulst in post #25)

Hornady75gn1.jpg


Hornady75gn2.jpg




More results to follow once my chrony gets in!
 
Hey, I just found this site for a company in the states that make extended mags and single shot adaptors for Savage DBM. www.sharpshootersupply.com

I've sent them an email to see if 1) they ship to Canada and 2) do their adapters and extended mags work for 223. I'll let y'all know what I find out.

If it it works out it will allow my VLP DBM to be much more multi-functional for F/TR and Precision. Fingers crossed.
 
I happen to have a Fred Sled on order from SSS. A buddy of mine happens to have a mail box just on the other side of the border and I live about an hour away. Hopefully I`ll be picking it up in the next few days and can let you know how well it works. Hopefully CBSA lets me bring it through but I don`t anticipate any problems.

On another note, I`ve loaded 3 batches of ammo (75gr. AMAX, 75gr. BTHP, 80gr VLD) and should be shooting a 900m match tomorrow. Will post some results when I get them.
 
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