Primer/powder storage box

[ivo]

Actually it was me that called the storage container a "firefighters worst nightmare"

And a cube van full of ammonia nitrate? It's nothing

Tell the people in Oklohoma City that!

While you may have been a firefighter, you sure don't sound like one to me.

 

[recce]

Not arguing about a single thing just hoping to be educated as to why ~30 posts suggest that wood 3/4" is required. The regs you posted are the same I posted and there is simply no requirement for wood and/or 3/4" thickness...

It says right there under 137 (c) wood, copper or other suitable material. Like I said in my previous post you are right, I did not see a requirement for 3/4"".

 

[Splatter]

Actually it was me that called the storage container a "firefighters worst nightmare"

Yup, woops, Mea culpa... my bad.

...Tell the people in Oklohoma City that!

<< Le Sigh>> Ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3), is essentially non-combustable on its own.

The Oklahoma City bombing used ANFO, which is a combination of ammonium nitrate and fuel-oil
And except in very large quantities and in a confined space, ANFO just burns, it burns vigorously, but it doesn't explode. To get ANFO to explode you need an initiator charge, and it has to be a pretty stiff one. Normal #4 blasting caps often won't do it on its own.
I have helped burn dozens of bags of ANFO (commercially prepared) and hundreds of pounds of various high explosives used in seismic surveys, and it all just burns. While I was a soldier I saw C-4 burned.

As for me not sounding like a firefighter... quite a few other firefighters/former firefighters are barely-controlled pyromaniacs. We became firefighters so we could play with fire.
Don't believe me? Invite a rural fire department to burn-down a few buildings on your property, and you'll see some rather accomplished arsonists at work. Think of us as "white-hat" arsonists.

 

[energy8667]

I guess I will have to build my own box.

Thanks for the comments/suggestions.

 

[Splatter]

As a FORMER firefighter, I think that's not really responsible of you to infer that if storage regs for powders are non-binding, they shouldn't be followed.

I'm saying that you need to follow the letter of the regulation. That the stuff that is optional or recommended, is exactly that, optional.

It's like transporting your non-restricted rifle in your car. It has to be unloaded. It doesn't have to be in a separate compartment, it doesn't have to be trigger locked, it doesn't have to have the barrel unscrewed and travelling in a different vehicle... sure there are people that might recommend those things, there are even cops that are convinced that some of those are part of the law. So do you weld your action shut or do something else to go "above and beyond"? That's fine if you do; but you don't have to.

...but since you've already id-ed yourself as a FORMER firefighter, shouldn't MORE safety be the thrust of your comments,...

Nope. The thrust of my comments is, and I believe should be "enough safety".
Because the ultimate position for "more safety" is "Don't do it!"
And I'm not about to do anything like that.

_ Look at it this way... in the last 20 years, (yup, 7300± days) there has been 1 definite, and one possible incident whee reloading components have initiated an incident which caused a large fire or serious injury (that I have been able to find anyway).

Think on that a moment..... 2 serious incidents in 20 years.....
Contrast that to -candles- Which cause around 100 fires every year and around 60 deaths.
Candles.. 60 deaths a year... Reloading components... 2 serious incidents in 20 years.
Now refresh my memory... how many candles are you allowed to keep in a detached dwelling house? And how many in an attached dwelling (obviously much fewer, right? because of the hazard of the fire spreading to innocent families)
What about the box that you have to keep them locked in?

Dude... storing powder in your house is probably the safest thing you can put in there. Find me something else that results in roughly 1 serious incident (let's say even 1 death!) every 10 years, that is fairly widely practised.

 

[electricjesus]

Yup, woops, Mea culpa... my bad.



<< Le Sigh>> Ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3), is essentially non-combustable on its own.

The Oklahoma City bombing used ANFO, which is a combination of ammonium nitrate and fuel-oil
And except in very large quantities and in a confined space, ANFO just burns, it burns vigorously, but it doesn't explode. To get ANFO to explode you need an initiator charge, and it has to be a pretty stiff one. Normal #4 blasting caps often won't do it on its own.
I have helped burn dozens of bags of ANFO (commercially prepared) and hundreds of pounds of various high explosives used in seismic surveys, and it all just burns. While I was a soldier I saw C-4 burned.

Actually, if I am not mistaken that was AN mixed with nitromethane. More cap sensitive than ANFO. Still just burns if ignited though...

 

[lineofsight]

If he's lying, I'm out $50 in wood. So what? Have we become so anal that we won't do anything, including things that can only be safer, SIMPLY because there's no reg forcing us to? That just shows that we need the nanny state to regulate us, because we won't do anything ourselves unless there is a law thrown in our face compelling us to.

There is no law that requires wood or 3/4"

The irony in your post is your reference to need for the nanny state to make laws yet you do not know what the laws are and cannot be bothered to read them even when presented to you (with key terms in bold). The "can only safer" assertion is similarly flawed.

Perhaps it's the tendency for people to simply follow something they read on the internet over thinking for themselves that motivates the nanny state to make regulations.

 

[Garand]

Actually, the statute as I read it requires a box made of plywood 3/4" thick with non-ferrous fasteners (to reduce the chance of spark/conduction of intense heat).




Here and here and here...

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._599/page-32.html#docCont

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._599/page-33.html#docCont

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._599/page-34.html#docCont


I've built my own box out of 3/4" plywood with brass fixtures to store my powders and primers in (seperated by another 3/4" wall between them). I've built it in order to comply with the Fed regs because, God forbid, I have a fire, I don't want the insurance company to deny me coverage because I wasn't storing them according to regs. In addition, I've clearly labeled the outside of the box so that if any firemen enter the house during a fire (presumably in the dark, with alot of smoke and near zero visibility), they'll clearly see the markings "in contrasting background" and take the necessary precautions. I'll try and post some pics

As you know the only 2 words that are absolute in the Federal Government dictionary are "shall" and "will", everything else is up for grabs. "preferably" in Para 137 is not an absolute.



137. In regard to any receptacle, the following provisions shall be observed:

(a) it shall be provided with a closely fitting lid secured by a lock, and hinges and fastenings, preferably of copper or brass, and otherwise closed and secured so as to prevent unauthorized persons having access thereto, and shall be kept locked except when required to be open for receipt or removal of explosives, or other necessary purpose;


(b) it shall be exclusively used for the keeping of explosives;


(c) it shall be made of wood, copper or other suitable material;


(d) the interior of the receptacle and all fittings therein shall be so constructed, covered or lined as to prevent the exposure of any iron or steel, or of any hard or gritty surface, or the entry, detaching, or accumulating of grit, iron, steel or similar substance;


(e) the interior of the receptacle shall be kept scrupulously clean; and


(f) the receptacle shall have the word “EXPLOSIVES” conspicuously displayed thereon on a contrasting background.

 

[warrenb]

home made

its rickity and a little out of square, but only took $25 and 30 mins to do....and it does the trick

Thats a nice box. But where do you keep all your powder?

 

[HIGHRPM]

Dam nice box ! And I can see where the decals would really help identification real quick, well done.

 

[Red_Liner740]

just an FYI, in the interim, the 7.62x39 ammo crates hold 8 1lbs jugs like they are meant for it, lying down ofcourse.

 

[ruger22]

As you know the only 2 words that are absolute in the Federal Government dictionary are "shall" and "will", everything else is up for grabs. "preferably" in Para 137 is not an absolute.



137. In regard to any receptacle, the following provisions shall be observed:

(a) it shall be provided with a closely fitting lid secured by a lock, and hinges and fastenings, preferably of copper or brass, and otherwise closed and secured so as to prevent unauthorized persons having access thereto, and shall be kept locked except when required to be open for receipt or removal of explosives, or other necessary purpose;


(b) it shall be exclusively used for the keeping of explosives;


(c) it shall be made of wood, copper or other suitable material;


(d) the interior of the receptacle and all fittings therein shall be so constructed, covered or lined as to prevent the exposure of any iron or steel, or of any hard or gritty surface, or the entry, detaching, or accumulating of grit, iron, steel or similar substance;


(e) the interior of the receptacle shall be kept scrupulously clean; and


(f) the receptacle shall have the word “EXPLOSIVES” conspicuously displayed thereon on a contrasting background.

Thanks for this clear info.
Does the same apply for storage in an outdoor, locked shed, 20' from the house"?