Privacy Stuff

the simple fact is, under Canadian law IPSC Canada and it's sections are obligated (in other words have to) keep our information private. That includes our names and placing. We had a vote on this in BC as well, prior to that piece of legislation and it was approved to have our results behind passwords.
Had anyone complained about the post Canuck made, I would've removed it. Previously we've done that. As well previously when results were posted last names were reduced to initials for privacy reasons.
If you want your name out there, feel free to post it, I don't give a #### about mine, but I am certainly not going to post other peoples names without their permission.
Perhaps IPSC Canada and it's sections can send out an email/letter asking people to give their permission to have their names published in public areas of the various sites. I think it would be a good idea, and would allow for those interested in the sport to learn more.
 
Bartledan

If you read it before then you obviously haven't taken the advice.

IPSC/IDPA are both mainstream sports and there is no reason in the world not to advertise our sports via posting results. Anybody who wants to go to the lengths to find out who has guns only has to hang around a gun range in a mall or at an outdoor range and follow you home.



"That's awfully Liberal of you, mate, forcing everyone to conform to your opinion of what is proper."

And how did you come to this marvelous conclusion, rubbing to sticks together hoping for a spark? The results were already posted on the WWW via the IPSC International site.

Take Care

Bob
 
Rob how does IPSC Internation get the information if not from IPSC Canada or in this case IPSC B.C.? Seems to me the laws you quote or pretty thinly applied if they exist.

http://www.ipsc.org/

As you can see the results were posted on Sept 2.

I also notice the Quebec, Sakatchean and Manitoba's Provincials are also up there. Not much of a secret I suggest.

Take care and congrats for finishing 2nd in the provincials.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Omen

I checked the IPSC International site and every provincial championship is listed with full names etc. The Provincial Organizations and the National Organization don't seem to share the view of some, not to post the results of the matches.

Take Care

Bob
 
the international bodies don't need to follow the same rules our National and Provincial bodies do. Just because some of them don't doesn't mean they are right. It's the same with our gun clubs, we are not allowed provide any personal information on our members to anyone, without the members allowing it. The privacy laws have already bitten a couple orgs. I certainly wouldn't like to see IPSC suffer the same fate.
 
Rob who is sending IPSC International the results if not the Provincial and National Orgs? If the results are reported to IPSC INternational, I presume for publishing, then the whole issue of privacy seems to me to be a bit of a red herring.

You just completed the BC Provincials and the results are listed on IPSC INternational website. You are involved provincially so it shouldn't be to hard to find out who sent the info into the International body.

With respect to those who differ as long as we hide our sport in a vail of secrecy, albeit a rather loose one, then what chance have we got to legitimize the sport. In my view shooting sports are not much different than darts. Just a different method of getting the 'dart' from a to b.

AS for the fear of theft why steal a $1500 gun when you can steal a $40K car in the driveway? In both cases they are registered.

As a matter of interest a provincially registered organization is not bound by federal law I don't think. There is however, a B.C. Privacy Act that would come into play. It is my understanding that only federally registered organizations would fall under the federal Privacy Act.

Take Care

Bob



Take Care

Bob
 
uummm Bob...

If you're going to continue to be such an abrasive a**hole...at least change your default sig...:rolleyes:

#####ing, whining and complaining...followed by...


...Take Care

Bob

Just seems like you're not really putting in an effort...not very genuine if you know what I mean :confused:

Why not just sign off with

Bob

................

Take Care

Quigley
 
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Okay. A few things.

First of all, I had already fixed the IPSC BC calendar and match copy stuff. Registrations, I'm considering leaving behind the password barrier just because it usually has names and addresses on it. If you want a copy of the reg form, you can email to request one.

As for the results behind the password barrier, it was explained to me like this: There was a new Provincial privacy law put in place in BC a couple of years ago (coincidentally, about 2 months before IPSC Sections in Canada started moving their stuff behind the password barrier).

Basically, you can publish names with a certain degree of flexibility. The benchmark was "available to no more people than could reasonably expect to see it if they attended the event", unless a disclaimer or waiver was signed.

Availability on the Internet, of course, is out. Our parent organization, IPSC is privvy to the information, however. What they do with the information outside of the jurisdiction of Canadian civil law is up to them. That is why they are able to post names of top ten finishers and winners of special categories.

As for stats, they will likely remain behind the password barrier. However, I'm going to ask my SC and BoD if we can add the IPSC Canada password and USPSA password to our site as well so that other sections can look at some of our information. I'm not sure if it's kosher, but only those people that "might reasonably" participate in an IPSC match (they would just have to travel a bit) would all have access. Maybe this is something we should consider right across Canada. I hate the fact that I can't see any of Ontario's results.
 
Being a member of IPSC BC/Canada also means I am a member of the world body, which means it's reasonable and expected of them to have my results. Hence the reason they are up on their pages. All it would take is one person to complain to the privacy commisioner and a section could be stuck in a huge lawsuit. Someone taking the names from behind the password and then publishing them here may or may not have anything to worry about. I really don't know. But I do know that we have to respect the wishes of those who don't want their names published. Like I said, I don't care about mine, hell I am in the paper, on TV etc fairly often, and most often due to the shooting sports (and not my drug/child #### habit)[joke]. But that's me.
 
Makes sense to me. I guess if you are going to enter Provincidl/National Chapionships you are going to have your name published if you finish in the top group by the INternational Organization which leads me to think you have, by entering, given up your privacy rights by default.

As a matter of interest when IPSC Canada first published the National Results I don't recall needing a password to see them.

Quigley - you can swear....amazing.

hungrybeagle - thanks for the informative reply. I think the whole issue could be resolved by signing a waiver similar to what you are offered when you open a Bank account now in B.C. The waiver would be something to the effect if you finish in the top 10 in your division you agree to have your name published. It just seems to me that the Provincial Orgs are being handcuffed in communicationg their results when the International Org is free to publish them. You would think if indeed they are handcuffed by the legislation then by passing on the information to a third party consitutes the same violation as if they communicated it themselves openly. I can't imagine the top shooters in Canada not wanting to see the results of their labour recognized but others may feel differently. I suggest it would certainly help to change the publics view of handgun ownership when they see or read about ordinary Canadians enjoying their shooting sports.

Take Care

Bob
 
Since when you have to hide real name of COMPETITOR?
Guys, it's Provincial/Nationnal/World competition! Do you expect the Olympics to hide realname of their competitor? Nothing to do with Canadian laws about privacy.

If you go to IPSC Canada website, you have the "IPSC Canada Members' Classification List" which have full name of all IPSC Canada members. (from ipsc.org)

It's a sport, be proud.

My 2 cents
 
It's like any law....we may not agree with it, and think it's a pile of crap, but are legally bound to follow it.

Case in point; it was explained to me that if I collect the emails of people who register for an IPSC match in May, I can't use those emails to contact the people about an upcoming match in July unless I specifically include a waiver that they sign saying that I may use their registration information for purposes other than the original match.

Sounds idiotic, but that's how it was explained to me.
 
Just need to add a waiver in the rules. Like when you go to an amusement park, you get hurt? not their fault, by beeing on the site you forfeit your right to sue.

Hungrybeagle it's like the polls you get. They take your number of compagny that you use like Bell/Desjardins and it's writen in their policy they may sell the info if they wish. That's their waiver.
 
Canuck44 said:
Considering the Nation results are posted I think the effort is redendant. That and I think we worry to much about this kind of thing happening. It can, and likly does but at some time we are going to have to come out of the woodwork and say, "hey we are mainstream".

The chances of it happening are pretty remote IMHO.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...

Not really. we have a fellow who lived in a semi remote location that got targeted. stricly came in for the guns and got the safe open.
 
Icefire said:
Just need to add a waiver in the rules. Like when you go to an amusement park, you get hurt? not their fault, by beeing on the site you forfeit your right to sue.
Click to expand...

The problem is, what happens if 1 person objects and refuses to sign the waiver? They can't join the organiziation? They can't shoot the match?
You can't go through all of the results to remove that one name; it's too much hassle.

Generally, it's not an issue, because if you have an interest in IPSC, you probably know somebody that will tell you the password. It's a generic one; it's published in our newsletter, just like the US one is published in the theirs (I wonder if the move to create "members only" sections was in part the influence of USPSA)
 
Well if they don't agree with IPSC rules (waiver) they will find another sport or live with. Anyone can go at a match, write down names/scores and publish it in the newspaper...

Oh, IPSC Qc website need a BIG update :)
 
wouldn't it be possible to have a query that filtered based on whether or not they had given permission to have their names published. I know on entry forms to matches there is something about using our faces or whatnot.
and the the Top 5 list looks good Chris, some old old names there that haven't shot in awhile eh?
 
Icefire said:
Well if they don't agree with IPSC rules (waiver) they will find another sport or live with. Anyone can go at a match, write down names/scores and publish it in the newspaper...

Oh, IPSC Qc website need a BIG update :)
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity...how long have you had your Black Badge ?
 
Icefire said:
Well if they don't agree with IPSC rules (waiver) they will find another sport or live with. Anyone can go at a match, write down names/scores and publish it in the newspaper...

Oh, IPSC Qc website need a BIG update :)
Click to expand...

Alternatively, anyone who is unhappy with IPSC's decision to allow members to choose whenther their full names are posted on the internet is welcome to "find another sport to live with".

It's like this: Having the full names of competitors protected behind passwords harms no one, and inconveniences only those knuckleheads who are so gripped by inane curiousity about the results, they are blind to the fact that they are not in fact being inconvenienced, harmed, or insulted in any way.

On the other hand, posting the full names of competitors where they will be crawled by google, yahoo etc. has a real and immediate potential for harm or simply inconvenience to that competitor. In Canada's "gun free" society, the demand for stolen guns is ferocious.

Plus, add in what relliot said about the "tip line". Who needs to give people that kind of leverage? Ever had a disagreement with someone? Who wants to lose $50,000 and all their guns for 2 years just so some jackass can look at the stats for a match he didn't even attend?

Simple manners trumps your guys' curiousity about the results in another friggin' section!

Just drop it, OK?
 
Bartledan

I appreciate your concerns and also how the BC Org is handling the situation as regards to the privacy laws however, somebody in BC Org is sending the results on to a third party otherwise how is IPSC International getting the results to post.

http://www.ipsc.org/

Two points Icefire raised are valid. First there is nothing to stop the Vancouver Sun from posting the winners and doing a story on the Provincial Matches. Secondly, if the National Organization posts the names of it's members:

http://www.ipsc-canada.org/canclass.htm

then I fail to see where the Privacy Act is relevant. Perhaps it is time to seek legal advice ad time has passed since the Act's passing and there might be a different take on how the law effects organizations.

Lastly, as he pointed out if you join a World Organization such as IPSC you are accepting practices of that organization and if publishing the results of matches is one of their practices your choices are simple...join or don't join.

Take Care

Bob
 
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